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Old 02-15-2020, 10:55 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Makes you wonder. The Dr. who warned about the virus in December, died... From the virus.
What's suprising about someone arrested for embarrassing the state dying in confinement?

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Old 02-15-2020, 12:06 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I wonder what the Google results look like for Chinese that try to get more info on the doctor that announced the disease?

For some strange reason, my mind immediately went to N Korea. When those guys move towards a capitalistic system, they will become an extremely rapidly growing economy, perhaps faster than we've ever seen before. They could slightly put a dent in China's manufacturing dominance.

If China weren't so huge, we would be more motivated to put economic pressure on them to treat people with more dignity.
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Old 02-15-2020, 02:58 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Good ole Big gov.
Chinese has pretty much blocked the western internet. They all use VPNs tho.
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Old 02-16-2020, 03:15 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
What seems wrong to me is the explanation I hear for there being a "flu" season. The explanation is that people spend more time indoors, which means in closer proximity to others. The colder temperatures are always dismissed.

If China is telling people to stay indoors, that goes against the conventional wisdom of viruses spreading more easily that way.
Research on guinea pigs (literally) has shown why there's a seasonal influence. Two groups of guinea pigs, one infected with a flulike germ, one not, each in cages relatively close together in a room.
At 5 degrees Celsius all the healthy guinea pigs got the Guinea pig flu.
At 20 degrees only one out of 4 got the flu.
At 30 degrees none got the flu (and they were all living as well )

Weirdly enough, during winter the air is not only colder but also much drier.
Germs spread in microscopic droplets of water, sprayed around when someone sneezes. These droplets evaporate slowly in a warm and moist environment but quickly in dry air. The larger a droplet is, the faster it will come down to the ground, the smaller the chance someone else breathes it in and gets infected.
In dry air viruses are in very small droplets that remain airborne almost indefinitely.

At least, that's what the researchers came up with to explain their results.

The Chinese advice to stay in is not specifically meant to create adverse conditions for flu contamination but rather to avoid meeting people with flu at all.
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Old 02-16-2020, 03:41 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Germs spread in microscopic droplets of water, sprayed around when someone sneezes.
...or fails to lower the lid on the flusher before they cycle it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5
I wonder what the Google results look like for Chinese that try to get more info on the doctor that announced the disease?
VPN? I really don't know. If you spoof your location inside their Great Firewall are you subject to it?

edit: This on Slashdot today:
news.slashdot.org: China Quarantines Cash to Sanitize Old Bank Notes From Coronavirus
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Old 02-16-2020, 11:52 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
Research on guinea pigs (literally) has shown why there's a seasonal influence. Two groups of guinea pigs, one infected with a flulike germ, one not, each in cages relatively close together in a room.
At 5 degrees Celsius all the healthy guinea pigs got the Guinea pig flu.
At 20 degrees only one out of 4 got the flu.
At 30 degrees none got the flu (and they were all living as well )

Weirdly enough, during winter the air is not only colder but also much drier.
Germs spread in microscopic droplets of water, sprayed around when someone sneezes. These droplets evaporate slowly in a warm and moist environment but quickly in dry air. The larger a droplet is, the faster it will come down to the ground, the smaller the chance someone else breathes it in and gets infected.
In dry air viruses are in very small droplets that remain airborne almost indefinitely.

At least, that's what the researchers came up with to explain their results.

The Chinese advice to stay in is not specifically meant to create adverse conditions for flu contamination but rather to avoid meeting people with flu at all.
Thats a very interesting post. I noticed this when I was in college too. I thought it was exacerbated by staying indoors with air quality that is typically 2x worse than outside. Also, in the dorms all of the AC is connected together so if one person gets sick in one room it gets mixed around the whole building. I pretty much stopped getting sick after I moved out into my own home. Probably a mix of the cheap ass air filters that never got replaced and the interconnections. I know that HEPA filters and room to room seperation are mandated in certain industries here but I doubt much at all in China.
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Old 02-17-2020, 05:22 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
I wonder what the Google results look like for Chinese that try to get more info on the doctor that announced the disease?
You know, instead of speculating and imagining weird conspiracies based on whatever TV you've watched about North Korea or the Soviet Union (which are not China), you can Google yourself to find every other article talking about all the official praise he's getting (highlighting that this is a very rare phenomenon in China too):
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ch/4688827002/

He didn't announce the disease, he messaged some doctor friends saying there were cases of SARS. The police brought him in, then he went straight home and was not booked in jail, then came down with the virus and died in the hospital. You can also easily find this if you read some news articles, which y'all clearly didn't.

State media and high level officials have called him a hero, but that's pretty ironic IMO because he didn't set out to warn people at all, it's just that since he died (publicly announced) that public anger exploded.

Telling people to stay indoors is obviously to avoid virus transmission...if you have a cough, don't you think you'd have a higher chance of infecting others if you're out and about? There's literally nothing else that can be done, since there's no cure or vaccine.

Come on, this forum is supposed to have fact-based, intelligent discourse, I know you're better than this, redpoint5 and hayden55. I don't want to see the stupidity of the internet reach here.

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Old 02-17-2020, 01:37 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialk11r View Post
You know, instead of speculating and imagining weird conspiracies based on whatever TV you've watched about North Korea or the Soviet Union (which are not China), you can Google yourself to find every other article talking about all the official praise he's getting (highlighting that this is a very rare phenomenon in China too):
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ch/4688827002/

He didn't announce the disease, he messaged some doctor friends saying there were cases of SARS. The police brought him in, then he went straight home and was not booked in jail, then came down with the virus and died in the hospital. You can also easily find this if you read some news articles, which y'all clearly didn't.

State media and high level officials have called him a hero, but that's pretty ironic IMO because he didn't set out to warn people at all, it's just that since he died (publicly announced) that public anger exploded.

Telling people to stay indoors is obviously to avoid virus transmission...if you have a cough, don't you think you'd have a higher chance of infecting others if you're out and about? There's literally nothing else that can be done, since there's no cure or vaccine.

Come on, this forum is supposed to have fact-based, intelligent discourse, I know you're better than this, redpoint5 and hayden55. I don't want to see the stupidity of the internet reach here.
My ignorance on the subject is because I'm not curious enough to Google it. My comment was based entirely on Piotrskop's comment, which you didn't lambast in your post.

Then I went on a tangent like I always do, because events don't live in a vacuum; they're all interconnected. I was curious why conventional wisdom is that flu season is worse because people stay in confined spaces and not due to temperature drop or other environmental factors. I never bought that explanation. If you read between the lines, I'm suggesting staying inside will not increase the likelihood of contracting a virus.

If China adopted Japanese etiquette for interacting in public, I expect the spread of infection could be curtailed. I've always figured wearing a mask while ill would reduce sneeze droplets from escaping and present a physical barrier to touching the mouth and nose. I try to remember not to touch my mouth and nose when I'm sick so I don't spread anything, but those things happen subconsciously sometimes.
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Old 02-17-2020, 07:34 PM   #19 (permalink)
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My apologies, I've interacted with you more around here (or maybe it's just the sweet red motorcycle in the profile pic that I notice) so I felt more comfortable giving you a little heat I probably need to get away from my computer more, the internet is getting to me.

Yes that's a good point, I noticed that in Japan there is a culture of wearing masks when you're sick to avoid spraying germs into the air. That's a great idea everyone should adopt. Hopefully this scare changes people's habits.

There's that report of a man from Japan contracting the virus in Hawaii...I feel like it's only a matter of time before lots of cases are discovered in the continental US. I'm in NYC so my chances are very high :/

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Old 02-17-2020, 07:45 PM   #20 (permalink)
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My apologies, I've interacted with you more around here (or maybe it's just the sweet red motorcycle in the profile pic that I notice) so I felt more comfortable giving you a little heat My favorite sites on the internet are getting worse and worse and it's getting to me. I probably need to get away from my computer more.

Yes that's a good point, I noticed that in Japan there is a culture of wearing masks when you're sick to avoid spraying germs into the air. That's a great idea everyone should adopt. Hopefully this scare changes people's habits.

There's that report of a man from Japan contracting the virus in Hawaii...I feel like it's only a matter of time before lots of cases are discovered in the continental US. Yikes.
I took no offense and I like my ideas to be challenged rather than accepted. My reply was only to clarify my reasoning for posting what I posted.

I say whatever comes to mind to test it against other reasonable people, which is why I prefer this forum over others.

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