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Old 03-28-2018, 01:14 PM   #1221 (permalink)
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Can't we all just get a bong?

The value of the battery is it overcomes the bursty nature of demand, which might trigger a coal plant coming online and ramping up to meet a peak that has already passed. It's isn't rocket science, that's another Elon Musk company.

edit:
Once the concept is proved out using environmentally-costly batteries, we can get serious:

http://blogs.worldwatch.org/revolt/u...a-grand-scale/

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Old 03-28-2018, 11:19 PM   #1222 (permalink)
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Bamboo, the steel of future :

 
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Old 03-29-2018, 02:51 AM   #1223 (permalink)
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Excellent. Allow me to go offtopic for a bit:

Back ontopic:

cleantechnica.com:800 Megawatt Bay State Wind US Offshore Project Partners To Combine Energy Storage
Quote:
Earlier this month, the 800 megawatt Bay State Wind offshore project being developed jointly by ěrsted and Eversource off the coast of Massachusetts announced a deal which will see it work with local NEC Energy Solutions to develop an energy storage solution for the offshore wind farm.
/r/Futurology:The most cost-effective sustainable energy generation system for the US could have the potential to generate over 3,700 TWh of extra useful energy which is enough to extract 500,000,000 metric tons of CO2 per year.
Quote:
By considering oversized PV, the algorithm approximated the energy storage requirements for increasingly oversized PV. The result was a graph showing all possible configurations of PV and energy storage.
They like 2x PV and carbon sequestration for best ROI. That sounds like a carbon-tax friendly scenario.

edit:
Tangential to the topic: Re-green 1/3rd of the planet

save the last living dinosaur by attracting migratory birds with a solar-powered CD player:
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Old 03-29-2018, 07:48 AM   #1224 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
They like 2x PV and carbon sequestration for best ROI. That sounds like a carbon-tax friendly scenario.
That article somehow contends that we will have a stable grid with 2X PV and 7 hours of storage. But it is dark at least half of the time. Keep in mind also the best PV systems in the world make 31% of their nameplate. In NY, USA the average for the year is 15% with days at a time of 0% in the winter.
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"Based on the current analysis, the most cost-effective system (for the USA) would cost 11 trillion dollars and require a 5,000 GW PV System and 16,650 GWh of storage."
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We can stretch our carbon fuel for as long as we can by using what we have left to build out alternative energy but eventualy it will leave us long before (never) we are ready to leave it.
 
Old 03-29-2018, 07:59 AM   #1225 (permalink)
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Old 03-29-2018, 02:20 PM   #1226 (permalink)
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The only way the US could power everything with solar by doubling current solar capacity and adding 7 hours of storage is get everyone to cut their consumption by about 95%, including industrial users.
As of 2014 if Japan bought every solar panel on earth they wouldn't even be able to provide half the country's power.
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Old 03-29-2018, 03:06 PM   #1227 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
The only way the US could power everything with solar by doubling current solar capacity and adding 7 hours of storage is get everyone to cut their consumption by about 95%, including industrial users.
As of 2014 if Japan bought every solar panel on earth they wouldn't even be able to provide half the country's power.
That's just what the Saudis have in mind...
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ark-36306.html
Almost 3 times their total current electricity usage, 100 times as big as the biggest PV plant in existence.

If every oil producing country would invest 10% of its oil revenue in solar it is going to be big. Just include shale oil.
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Old 03-29-2018, 07:06 PM   #1228 (permalink)
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Solar works good in the desert. Saudi might get 35%. Germany's immense solar build out performs poorly. It's annual capacity factor is 10%. Same with the North East USA . And even if you successfully replace all electricity, this is only 20-30% of all embodied energy we use to have this life style.
 
Old 03-29-2018, 07:36 PM   #1229 (permalink)
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I have a question.

Is a power plant of a given X watts value (like 10)KW) refered to the type and quantity of solar panels ?. Is this value refered as the summatory of the solar panels output (in ideal sun condition), even that it don't work at noght or almost nothing in heavy cloud rain weather ?

For example, If I placed 100 solar panels of 250W each one, will this be a 25000W (25KW) solar power plant ?
I suspect it's not, because if was so a identical system on sahara desert and one identical in Finland, would produce a very different final output per month.
 
Old 03-29-2018, 08:22 PM   #1230 (permalink)
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SolarStar is one of the highest performing and largest PV farms on the planet at 31% of its nameplate ac capacity of 600MW. Or 25% of 750MW PV capacity. Take your pick.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Star
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Germany's solar does 10%.
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SolarStar uses 13 sqkm and at $2/ W would cost $1.2 Billion. It averages 190MW. We need 2,160 more SolarStars to make it to 100% of current USA electrical consumption. $2 Trillion USD. Every 20 years. And only if installed in the best desert locations That make 31%. Then we need some long wires to get from wherever to the NE USA which would only average 13% and have many days of zero if the panels were there.
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Then we need 6TWh storage to store just 12 hours of USA consumption. This is 170 times the annual production of the GigaFactory. And would still fall short many days. Another $2 Trillion. Every 10 years.
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Wind is slightly cheaper in the best locations but requires 10X the land area.
.
And electricity is only 1/3 to 1/5 of the total embodied energy that we use.

 
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