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Old 05-10-2018, 02:55 AM   #1641 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RustyLugNut View Post
I have little issue with the whole global warming agenda other than it places all the blame of said warming on CO2. Severe curtailing of CO2 emissions will not stop global warming as such. Even the experts admit this. So what point is it to cripple our economies without a real plan to replace our energy needs with something more realistic than the effusive renewable energy as it is produced today?
Truth is hard to find in a world full of deception. CO2 is a very important greenhouse gas, one that needs to be curtailed to help the planet's health. The level of severity is what is the question.

I am not interested in heated debate over environmental issues, its just not my desire, but over the years listening to all sides of this debate, I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Al Gore has been quite honest, whether you like him or hate him, he is transparent and clear about his intent. In his movie, he clearly stated you have to shock and awe people into action. He's basically admitting that he doesn't mind using some fireworks to inspire people for change, even if he stretches the truth at times. Give him credit, he's being honest when he says he's a shock jock on climate change. Even if you disagree with someone, you can admire their honesty.

I don't always agree with Al Gore, but all the science does point to CO2 and other greenhouse emissions as being man-driven and dangerous for the environment.

Here is where I pivot and embrace another point of view. There are so many shock jocks with regard to global warming that they sometimes defeat their purpose. When they say the end is around the corner, or they link present day weather phenomenon to global warming, that's where the Al Gore storylines tend to fall down. Hurricane Katrina wasn't caused by global warming, which was a theme in his movie. Katrina was a bad hurricane because the Gulf of Mexico has hot waters, its a gulf of warm ocean water in tropical and sub-tropical geography. It has produced very bad hurricanes in the past, I think Camille was more powerful than Katrina and it was in 1969.

The fact that a lot of environmentalists use present day weather phenomenon to push the agenda hurts their cause, it doesn't help.

But their underlying message is still true, warming oceans will most certainly cause more terrible cyclones and storms.

I will never claim to be an expert on the environment. It would be dishonest, it would not be something I could even begin to have energy to debate repeatedly. BUT, what I do admire are some new voices that have appeared in the environmental movement that have brought fresh air into it.

I highly recommend everyone watch COOL IT, a documentary based on a quasi-biography of Bjorn Lomborg. He is an environmentalist who introduces practical, every-day solutions to the global warming problem (and yes, it is a problem, and yes it is man made). I read some of his work before I watched the movie, but as is typical with these films is that it brings a lot of things together in a compact time frame to make it easier for public consumption.

I also think nuclear energy is a *good* idea. Its certainly the only carbon neutral energy source that happens to be reliable and able to be used as a baseline to produce world demand on a consistent basis.

We will never get anywhere on the environment listening to shock jocks, and we will never get anywhere on the environment if we don't get honest about modern society needing to consume energy, and a lot of it.

I have zero desire to reduce my energy usage and place our lifestyles back into the medieval period (and yes, that's what environmental extremists want). We can help the planet and live a modern life, it doesn't have to be an either/or scenario.

Rejecting extremism on all sides of the global warming debate will help us all. Again, I highly recommend COOL IT. Its the documentary that clears the air about the misinformation and shock and awe of an Inconvenient Truth. It honestly dives into the issue, admits global warming is a harm, is man made, and that we need change. But it produces practical change that doesn't break our economies and explains that we can proudly live a modern life without regret.

The thing I hate most about pro-global warming extremism is the guilt trips: using children and grandchildren as puppets to force a fairly extreme agenda down everyone's throats.

But at the end of the day, its not any worse than global warming denial and the idiots that say there is no harm and its all natural.

I'm waiting for the day that rejection of extremism becomes cool and in vogue.


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Old 05-10-2018, 12:43 PM   #1642 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyLugNut View Post
I have little issue with the whole global warming agenda other than it places all the blame of said warming on CO2. Severe curtailing of CO2 emissions will not stop global warming as such. Even the experts admit this. So what point is it to cripple our economies without a real plan to replace our energy needs with something more realistic than the effusive renewable energy as it is produced today?
Huh? Climate change will cost us more and more - it already costs us BILLIONS. And fossil fuel pollution costs us billions in health and early deaths. Our military spending to protect oil is costing us billions, if not trillions.

We have to stop putting ANY carbon from fossil fuels into the air if we want to have a chance of our society surviving. We have put so much carbon into the air so quickly, that it will take at LEAST 50 years for the warming to stop.

IF we have already triggered enough feedback warming - melting ice caps, melting tundra, increased water vapor, methane and nitrous oxide, warming oceans - then the only way we can keep our society is the put as much of the carbon into the soil as we can.

What part of the fact that renewable energy has provided more NEW jobs than fossil fuels don't you understand? If we avoid runaway warming - then dropping fossil fuels will pay for itself.
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Old 05-10-2018, 03:10 PM   #1643 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrive
I highly recommend everyone watch COOL IT, a documentary based on a quasi-biography of Bjorn Lomborg. He is an environmentalist who introduces practical, every-day solutions to the global warming problem...

I also think nuclear energy is a *good* idea.
I haven't seen it. While I think the science should be, and needs to be, falsifiable; the danger is in the economic/Hegelian 'solutions'.

Nuclear is high-tech and scales with difficulty, if only politically. The solution is multi-variate, but the low-tech scalable solution is biochar. In this I agree with NeilBlanchard.
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Old 05-10-2018, 03:14 PM   #1644 (permalink)
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Nuclear is the only tech that will generate a lot of power 24 hours a day, rain or shine, wind, no wind, even with snow covering everything while making little CO2 over the fuel life cycle.
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Old 05-10-2018, 03:47 PM   #1645 (permalink)
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I wish people could realize that we can't "drop fossil fuels". We might be able to transfer half of our electric and some personal transportation (until we run out of materials for batteries), but this is less than half of our total energy consumption. Rebuildables are fossil fuel extenders. There is no replacement for liquid fuel in heavy machinery and transportation at the scale we require to keep the economy going.
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Old 05-10-2018, 04:08 PM   #1646 (permalink)
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This latest lithium shortage and the 2010ish nickel price surge shows that battery powered everything is likey impossible and that battery powering a good portion of the vehicles produced today is not even close to being possible.
That doesn't even begin to tackle grid storage.
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Old 05-10-2018, 04:16 PM   #1647 (permalink)
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What ever happened to H2 being used as a battery? I remember reading stories that said my cell phone would be hydrogen powered one day.

Nuke could decompose water into H2, and in turn could power and heat most things.
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Old 05-10-2018, 04:20 PM   #1648 (permalink)
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H2 production transportation and storage is very inefficient. "fool cells" are expensive and fragile.
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Old 05-10-2018, 04:23 PM   #1649 (permalink)
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Hydrogen is horrible.
As long as natural gas is around no one is going to be making large amounts of hydrogen for portable use. Since the cheapest source of hydrogen is natural gas and the cost of hydrogen is at least $15 per million BTUs. Which triples the price of the natural gas. Just use natural gas.
Also natural gas sourced hydrogen still produces lots of CO2.
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Old 05-10-2018, 04:59 PM   #1650 (permalink)
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I am waiting for the hydrogen fuel crash. Would it resemble a mini hydrogen bomb? lol

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