The climate change consensus extends beyond climate scientists

[freebeard]

There have been peculiar push-back behaviors with respect to:
....
Canoe-hull sailing vessels

Wut? The Yankee Clippers?

[sendler]

California has adopted smart grid street lights that seek to optimize continuous traffic flow.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

So you still think the polar ice caps are going to melt by 2010?
I would say that's a bit of a flaw.

That's what you call control.
He says the sea levels are going to rise, buys a 9 million dollar beach front mansion, tells you all that CO2 is going to kill us all but then flies around in a private jet while his unoccupied mansions consume thousands of dollars worth of utilities every month.
If that doesn't at least plant the seed of doubt then there is no hope for you and you're going to choke down what ever they put in front of you while pretending to smile.

The Dept.of the Navy has thought that the Arctic could be ice-free by this summer.While the ice extent has kind of hung in there,it's the ice 'volume' which is more important.
They also consider an open Northwest Passage,an existential threat to US national security.
Sea level has been rising.
As the sea ice goes,which buttresses continental glaciers,the glaciers are calving icebergs,which are new ice,and DO raise sea level.
As moulins drain meltwater down under the glaciers,it lubricates the glacier and accelerates calving.
As the oceans warm,they accelerate ice loss by undermining the ice.
And warming oceans literally expand what water is already there.
These things are happening at a non-linear rate,and accelerating as feedback loops reinforce melt.
It's this 'abrupt' change which is freaking out the scientists.We know from the geological record that earth has seen abrupt change within decadal time frames, and remained there a long time.
Once human core temps get to 104F we're looking at organ failure.2,500 El Salvadoran cane cutters have already died from renal failure over the last 2-decades.90% of their coffee crop has failed.
There's all kind of black-swan events going on.
They can't seem to stay hydrated in the added heat.
I don't apologize for Gore's behavior.I'd chastise him if I could.That said,so far,I've never seen any evidence to the contrary of what he presented in An Inconvenient Truth.
If you want 'doubt',check out the preamble and conclusions of all the scientific papers on climate change.The scientists are the first to draw attention to imperfectness of their work.I do feel like they're committed to finding 'truth'.I'm glad that they're out there trying to watch my back.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

That's not a scientific law just speculation.

I don't understand your comment.Can you please clarify?

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

And the only constant is, they still get it wrong.

How much time to you waste doing this?

Some messengers report that the numerical models have a high degree of success,and enjoy widespread acceptance within the scientific community.
As to the time,it's the best way I can think of to spend my time.
I'll be dead before too long,so I wouldn't worry.I don't know.
Earth is important to me.I pay attention to it.I attempt awareness.
And I'm comfortable sleeping with the enemy.
Everything is just information.I'm not from Earth.I'm not attached to it.I have no expectations about the future.I'm fully aware of what mankind is capable of.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

We now understand that hurricanes have more to do with solar dynamics than they do with trace amounts of plant food in the atmosphere.

Well the first time their dooms day predictions failed they just added 50 to 100 years to them. Instead of "we are all going to die soon" became a softer gentler "what kind of world are we leaving for our children and grandchildren".
I guess so it takes longer for them to be wrong.
Clearly gore is becoming a modern day L. Ron Hubbard.
No matter how crazy it sounds, it's gospel to the believers.

Guy McPherson (sp?) is the only one espousing near-term human extinction I believe.
He spent some time at a friend of mine's home,and my friend's impression was,that Guy was out of his depth on some issues,and had no deep understanding of some,except for conservation biology,of which I understand,he's quite learned.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Over earth's history the ocean has spent plenty of time well above current CO2 levels then compared to "when we arrived".
What's going to happen? Likely nothing since there have been way higher levels of CO2 in the past.
So again, I find nothing to panic about.

You people can panic all you want, I find it highly entertaining.

What I understand,is that humans weren't around when carbon dioxide levels were over 400 PPMV.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Science is based on independently reproducible results.

Scientific laws display 100% accuracy, that's why it's a law, it always works, 100% of the time and there is no counter argument that isn't proved wrong 100% of the time.
If the science only works 97% or 99% of the time, or there is counter arguments that can not be absolutely disproven all of the time then the little bit of science in question is still a theory.
But I see this a lot, global warming believers and bible thumpers not grasping how basic science works or is applied.
Scientific laws are the only settled science, but even they can be challenged.

If I give your wife Thalidomide,there's only a statistical likelihood that your children will have feet growing out of the tops of their heads.
Do you want to wait until they can predict with certainty,which children,and what deformities are certain until you take her off the medication?

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Wait till the green flag fliers see the mining and processing techniques for rare earth elements and what's left over from processing. They will be begging for hydraulic fracturing and nuclear power.

We'll see.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

I bought a leaf to be our primary vehicle, so for filling half my tank with foreign oil....

I project we are going to go from putting gas in our cars 3 or 4 times per month to less than once a month. Maybe even once every 2 months.

That's great! With your home PV you've got zero-carbon footprint potential for your transportation.AeroStealth is doing this with his CMAX Energi and they love it.Fuel price volatility won't affect you guys.
Thanks for doing that!