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Old 04-03-2019, 01:25 PM   #5511 (permalink)
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consumption

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Originally Posted by sendler View Post
Yes. Total primary energy consumption is rated as thermal energy produced. So coal and nuclear produce about 1/3 of that into usable electricity. The heat would also be usable such as the new coal plant in Germany which will supply district heat to 60,000 homes. Gas plants are 50% and could also start using the waste heat since they can be built close in to cities.
.
So if you multiply wind and solar by 3 you can say that the current levels of wind in the USA could conceivably replace 7% of energy and solar could replace .66%.
.
But there are also other challenges involved with mass electrification of tasks that we currently use liquid fuel for ie farming, mining, transportation. We would also need Gigatons of batteries. Which are not very energy dense.
If we ignore climate change,and Coal's CO2,and Natural gas' Methane leakage with hydro-fracking.plus, 'expect' that there would be no change to energy consumption levels,then I'm all in with any synergies associated with boot-strapping all forms of waste-heat recovery.
Lithium Bromide absorption refrigeration cycles can also use low-grade 200-degree F rejected heat for urban-scale chilled water-based air conditioning/dehumidification/food preservation/cool-pool load sharing etc..
Imagine Phoenix,Arizona,and the refrigeration potential lost all summer,with the 3-nuclear units, 50-miles west at Palo Verde.No telling how many millions of tons of refrigeration potential is lost 24-7.
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*Personally,I don't see why mineral extraction can't be completely electrified.Certainly,it would be 'different,'but horsepower is horsepower,whether derived from fossil-fuel,or an electrical umbilical cord.
*The power shovels could be electrified off of an 'extension cord.'
*The Leibherr and Caterpillar loaders could be be BEVs.
*The conveyors which load the rail cars could all be electric.They probably already are,just now, hooked to an onsite Caterpillar Diesel Gen set.
*All our freight locomotives are already electric.A third-rail,or catenary line could hook them up with renewable 3-phase power.Ditch the diesel engine.
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I farmed, ranched, and worked in the oilfield for 6-months in 1975.Nothing we did could not have been done with electricity.Tilling,planting,harvesting,hauling cattle to auction,baling.
A neighbor retired after a career on offshore drilling platforms in the Gulf of Mexico.Everything on the drilling platform was electric powered,except the Caterpillar generators.
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*We're staring down the barrel of electric 18-wheelers right now.
*Electric urban buses are already in service.
*All passenger trains can be all-electric.
*All rail freight can be electrified.
*When high-speed rail goes in,short-haul commuter air travel disappears,negating the need for billions of gallons/year JET-A , it's CO2 and killer fine particulates.
*After 2025 their won't be any cost advantage for piston cars or trucks.
*Oceanic cargo vessels could be fuel-cell powered.
*Cruise ships ditto.
*Air freight and passenger service is an issue.So far,Biofuels are the only thing promoted heavily.
*There are some electric aircraft.In very nascent/embrionic form.
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Grid storage is a work in progress.
We've already visited:
*Lead peroxide
*Nickel cadmium
*Nickel -metal hydride
*Nickel-zinc
*Zinc-air
*Zinc-chlorine
*Sodium-sulfur
*Aluminum-air
*Lithium-iron sulfide
*Lithium-ion
*Hydrogen fuel cell
All these may yet see applications in stationary,grid-scale storage capabilities.Since size and weight are less an issue.
The Chinese are sorting this out right now.

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Old 04-03-2019, 01:39 PM   #5512 (permalink)
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what about?

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Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
In a way, diesel and unleaded gas that we use in ours cars is what is leftover from refining oil and taking out all the other products we rely on just as much as motor fuel. What saved the whales wasn't any Greenpeace campaign but the discovery ground petroleum products were just as good, more plentiful, and easier to produce. No need to kill whales. So if we don't produce any oil what about rubber, asphalt, plastics, modern fabrics, etc. Propane and fuel oil has to go too. Right now it's a perfect balance, if you remove just the transportation portion you still have to drill and refine just as much oil to provide the other products. You just end up with a lake of unused gasoline and the price of everything else rising to cover the waste gasoline.
I suspect that our appetite for the myriad of products derived from petrochemicals will remain.At least they're 'durable',rather than a flash preceding a 'tailpipe'.
My look into I.G.Farben suggested that, a chemist could take 'gasoline' and turn it into whatever they chose.Pressure,temperature,or a catalyst,and voila!
It's all too precious to waste.$trillion has been mentioned.
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Old 04-03-2019, 01:46 PM   #5513 (permalink)
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no where

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Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
No where that has had a large shift towards solar has seen lower rates.
At least with wind, rates seem to stay the same most of the time.
Finland is providing solar-powered electricity to India, cheaper than India's lowest-tech,filthiest,cheapest,coal-fired power plant could provide. And India has cancelled all coal-fired power plant construction projects.
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Last edited by aerohead; 04-06-2019 at 01:32 PM.. Reason: wrong country sorry!
 
Old 04-03-2019, 02:21 PM   #5514 (permalink)
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Canceled the coal fired power plants in favor of solar or something else?
It is India in a lot of places they may turn off the power at night.
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Old 04-03-2019, 02:33 PM   #5515 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Canceled the coal fired power plants in favor of solar or something else?
It is India in a lot of places they may turn off the power at night.
They are building long wires from India to tap the vast solar resources in Norway.
 
Old 04-03-2019, 02:35 PM   #5516 (permalink)
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I guess. I know it doesn't make any sense but I was going to play along.
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Old 04-03-2019, 02:44 PM   #5517 (permalink)
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Norwegians are great ship-builders. They can use ships instead of an extension cord.

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Grid storage is a work in progress.
We've already visited:
Wood, tin and sodium:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0619195221.htm
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Old 04-03-2019, 03:17 PM   #5518 (permalink)
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Oh fun, the incrowd has already forgotten about India's huge solar projects.
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Old 04-03-2019, 04:55 PM   #5519 (permalink)
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something

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Canceled the coal fired power plants in favor of solar or something else?
It is India in a lot of places they may turn off the power at night.
It looks like,this year,India's government has embarked on major hydro projects to cover base load.
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Old 04-03-2019, 05:09 PM   #5520 (permalink)
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NBC Television to the Arctic

Last Saturday,NBC Television's chief meteorologist,Al Roker went to Utquiagvic,Alaska,to join NASA,NOAA and the National Science Foundation,to observe their research in the Arctic.
This area is warming twice as fast as the lower latitudes and after the Marshallese Islanders,The native people of Utquiagvic are expected to be the next climate refugees.
Late ice,thin ice,early melt,melting of the permafrost,storm surge,are all conspiring to remove their traditional ways of life.
The scientists are gathering data for the climate models,hoping to be able to better predict the near and longer term future prospects for the region.
Brought to you by tailpipes!

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