The climate change consensus extends beyond climate scientists

[sendler]

Someone on the other thread at Endless-sphere answered my question. Wind roll out in SA started in 2006.
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[RedDevil]

Why did the CPI comparison cut off at early 2013?
More recent data is available:


By the way, the CPI does not measure wealth but cost per item. We've been able to acquire more items over time.

[redpoint5]

That chart confirms the trend in Sendler's showing that electricity price has far exceeded normal inflation. In fact, it's about twice as expensive as it was in 2007.

I'd be PO'd if my utility said "good news everyone, you'll get the same amount of electricity, but pay as if you've used twice as much".

[RedDevil]

It shows that since 2013 the price of electricity has not risen further, and if it would extend to 2019 you 'd see it drop. Wages have risen over 10% in the same period.

Moreover, the graphs suggest a correlation between electricity cost and wind turbines, but that's not causation. Rather, the raise was caused by a lot of factors: ageing infrastructure, the gas quick response cartel, an old coal plant that needed costly repairs, etc.

[sendler]

It is partially caused by the incentives and new interconnects required to stimulate wind build out. And then made much worse but eh intermittent output of a growing percentage of wind causing bidding wars among thermal back up suppliers that are now relegated to running only in back up circumstances. But we are finally starting to see that the initial costs have been absorbed and the capacity is increasing to a point where it begins to be useful.
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The point is to show that the transition to wind and solar is not initially cheaper as is so often stated in the green media and it takes a concerted dedication and continued use of current thermal electric production and heavy liquid fueled machinery to implement any attempt at transition. Germany has been pursuing the transition for 20 years and still has the highest electricity price in the world even though they have access to the highest caliber offshore wind resources.

[redpoint5]

Okay, so I shouldn't be PO'd if instead the utility said "Good news everyone, you'll all get the same amount of power but pay 1.9x the amount".

It's not double the price, but it's near enough. If the prices hold steady, rising wages should create price parity by what, 2050?

[freebeard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwttpF0_D1M

[NeilBlanchard]

See the temperature trend from 1860 to 2018:

https://twitter.com/metoffice/status...33086968844294

[Grant-53]

How much of this debate is based on political or religious arguments? Don't mind my asking but I am trained in statistical quality control, experiment design, and Cause/Effect studies. I would like to do more than look at historical temperature data. I just don't want to waste trillions of dollars barking up the wrong tree.

[freebeard]

If I had trillions......

Anything can be viewed through a political or religious frame. Other frames might be scientific or statistical or economic.

I would like to do more than look at historical temperature data.

Look at the science. Is aerohead right about the Electric Universe and Space Weather? The news from space today is that galaxies are shaped less like a frisbee and more like a jelly fish. The visible stars trail tendrils of gas that are hard to see.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jellyfish_galaxy

Cold weather causes famine, rising temperature causes more CO2.