The climate change consensus extends beyond climate scientists

[freebeard]

The carrot rather than the stick? It could work.

I was thinking more along the lines of nano-scaled smart materials, like window glazing that maintains a homeostatic temperature without ongoing power needs.

No governmental fiat can be creative. That gets killed in committee.

[redpoint5]

I was very diligent about using blinds/opening windows to regulate household temperature in my PDX home. I'm sure my roommates aren't doing this now as I live down in Silverton at an apt.

I'm surprised at the stupid things we do and take for granted. Every window is custom built; shouldn't they be standard sizes by now? Windows should have programmable shades to regulate temperature. Why do we use asphalt shingles installed in short overlapping strips that are nailed to the roof, and wear out after 20 years? Etc, etc.

When I finally build a house, if programmable shades aren't a commercially available thing by then, I'm making it myself. I'm not putting an asphalt roof on either. My door will unlock itself in my presence so I don't have to fish for keys with an armload of baby and groceries... freebeard still has a ways to go to convince me to build a dome, but I'm open to the idea.

I'm not big on maintaining a fish tank, but having a large thermal mass central to the home to regulate temperature is appealing.

[freebeard]

My door will unlock itself in my presence so I don't have to fish for keys with an armload of baby and groceries...

I've always wondered why people expect remote door locks and power window lifts in their cars but not their houses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrochromism

[oil pan 4]

Some things need a bottom up grass roots approach some things need big top top down solutions.
Asking people to pay to fix global warming is like pouring roundup on the grass roots, so that's obviously not going to work. Time for the nuclear option.

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Some things need a bottom up grass roots approach some things need big top top down solutions.
Asking people to pay to fix global warming is like pouring roundup on the grass roots, so that's obviously not going to work. Time for the nuclear option.

Western Europe does the things you say 'obviously' aren't going to work.

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

You act like I'm the only one.
68% of people are unwilling to pay $10 or more per month.
As queen Nancy said before passing Obamacare: "we have the votes and that's all that matteres".
It works both ways.
I am part of the vast, overwhelming majority.

You completely ignore the point I made about the questionnaire putting the question wrong. You derive 'majority' from a mistake. In one questionnaire.

If only Breitibartfast could make a copy of the earth for you and your 'majority' to happily waste while we try to save ours...

[oil pan 4]

Yeah I wouldn't call western Europe a success story.
Still burn fossil fuels to generate electricity some and still get a lot of energy from fossil fuels it's just more expensive. Gasoline is at least $5 a gallon and people still buy cars.
That's energy poverty.
I want change through energy prosperity.
Of course Europe has it backwards as usual.

What's the believer con to get people pay more than $10 per month?
Or make it easy, what's the con to get believers to open their wallets?
We are not talking $10 per month, Obamas cap and tax plan started out around $30 to $36 per month per person at first, then swelled to around $100 per person per month after several years.

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Yeah I wouldn't call western Europe a success story.
Still burn fossil fuels to generate electricity some and still get a lot of energy from fossil fuels it's just more expensive. Gasoline is at least $5 a gallon and people still buy cars.
That's energy poverty.
I want change through energy prosperity.
Of course Europe has it backwards as usual.

What's the believer con to get people pay more than $10 per month?
Or make it easy, what's the con to get believers to open their wallets?
We are not talking $10 per month, Obamas cap and tax plan started out around $30 to $36 per month per person at first, then swelled to around $100 per person per month after several years.

Nobody is surprised you wouldn't.
Despite the fact that our roads are not pothole ridden.
Despite the fact that we still buy cars instead of oversized trucks and SUVs that wear down the roads even faster, just to commute and fetch groceries.
Despite the fact we burn half the fossil fuel per capita that the US does.

We probably spend several thousands more on tax than you do; not just on fuel costs, but on a lot of other things. But that money isn't lost in space.
Education, health care, unemployment benefits, social security, social housing, infrastructure, subsidies for clean energy, you name it. All paid for by taxes.
We even started to reduce our public debt. How will you do that?

We spend many thousands less on healthcare and insurance than you do for the same level of coverage. All in all we may well end up with more money to spend.
I won't say we do better - but we sure don't do worse.
Our measures obviously do work.

[oil pan 4]

If you like being taxed into the afterlife just so everyone can have free everything then go for it if that makes you happy. Keep that garbage on that side of the Atlantic.

Plan for the debt, precisely the same as last time. Let the economy expand rapidly and slowly increase the federal Reserve rate just like Clinton did in the 1990s.
Paying off the national debt is is one of those top down things I was talking about earlier.

20 years ago I could pay less than $200 a month and get great health coverage with a $1,000 deductible.
Then the government got involved now I pay around $500 per month an have a $6,500 deductible, all these Co pays and BS all because the government thought they could make it better. Well they made it better for someone, not me.
So I get a little suspicious and maybe even hostile when the government says they are going to fix something. Yeah they are going to fix it alright, fix it so their cronies get ultra rich.

I noticed over in Europe that "work" is a relative term.

[RedDevil]

It isn't a matter of all or nothing, but of choices. No freeloading luxuries, but providing the necessities for existence.
Unemployment benefit keeps you alive and able to follow a course to get a different job (from personal experience). If I hadn't I would have lost the benefit after some time. But it helped me get working again and I'm happy to pay that back through taxes.

Sorry for you if you feel your government is inept in making this work sensibly. But that has nothing to do with Europe.