The climate change consensus extends beyond climate scientists

[NeilBlanchard]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Is it just me or do the believers not want to debate the finer points of the ipcc reports?

Believers? Do you have to "believe" in gravity in order to stay on the surface of the earth?

[NeilBlanchard]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

About the time it's decided to "leave it in the ground" is about the time people will realize how much it's need to make things like solar panels and wind tuebines.

We can make the next generation of solar panels and wind turbines, etc. - WITH renewable energy.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

We can make the next generation of solar panels and wind turbines, etc. - WITH renewable energy.

No we can't. We don't have EV dump trucks, excavators, bulldozers and cranes. Even if we did, the machines that mine the raw materials to build them aren't electric. The enormous concrete pads that are poured to support wind turbines emit large amounts of CO2 during the chemical process than hardens it.

I bet we're a minimum of 50 years out from having electric heavy machinery.

[freebeard]

"It gets easier to pull yourself up by the bootstraps once you're off the ground."

[NeilBlanchard]

Of course we can. Everything is impossible - until it isn't.

[redneck]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

No we can't. We don't have EV dump trucks, excavators, bulldozers and cranes. Even if we did, the machines that mine the raw materials to build them aren't electric. The enormous concrete pads that are poured to support wind turbines emit large amounts of CO2 during the chemical process than hardens it.

I bet we're a minimum of 50 years out from having electric heavy machinery.

You would lose that bet.

There are a lot of electric mining machines. Most are diesel over electric. Front end loaders, shovels and haul trucks. But there are all electric drag lines and other equipment out there.

They are normally used in very large strip mines.

https://mining.komatsu/surface-minin...c-rope-shovels

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-m...-idUSKBN1JH2FI

https://www.mining-technology.com/fe...g-dump-trucks/




>

[redneck]

.

And the biggest one of all...

https://ccmodels.com/iron-profile-ma...hovel-captain/

Built in 1965





>

[freebeard]

Archigram's walking city?

Four motor generator sets converted 14,000 volt AC power to direct current for twenty main-drive motors capable of 30,000 horsepower output. The shovel could propel itself at 1/4 mph on four pairs of crawlers. Each crawler was 45 feet long and 16 feet high. Each crawler shoe measured ten feet across and tipped the scales at 3 1/2 tons.

The operator could telephone nine other stations on the machine, talk to the ground by loudspeaker, or to other mine areas by radio. A 3-man 8-story elevator transported crewmen from the lower frame to the machinery deck and gantry structure.

https://interestingengineering.com/e...orm-haul-train

Individually, ETF mining trucks can haul as much as 400 tonnes in a single load. Some models have the ability to distribute the weight over as many as seven axles which rest on four tires each. The truck is also a lot more stable because of a "Central Tyre Inflation System". The system actively monitors and adjusts the height of each wheel to counteract bumps in the road. If a tire suddenly deflates, the system automatically alerts the driver and raises the wheel to allow the driver to continue a run. Traditionally, a flat tire would immediately halt any operations of a truck. However, the ETF mining truck's ability to raise and lower its wheels allows it to continue to work- despite a flat tire.

The truck also features an all-wheel-drive and all-wheel-steering, which increases control and drastically decreases its turning radius. The ETF trucks can be used on the same roads where current Large Haul Trucks are operating with existing haul road profiles and bend radius. Side-tippers are standard.

Adding to the trucks' dexterity is the added ability of being able to link the trucks into a single haul train which can still be operated by just one driver.

Active suspension via the tire inflation system? Why not.

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

We can make the next generation of solar panels and wind turbines, etc. - WITH renewable energy.

Do tell.
So how do you make steel with out coke or glass and cement with out natural gas?

The first electric rock trucks have already been released and were met with a pretty cold reception. Turns out few mines are interested in an electric rock truck that costs substantially more than a diesel and might run for 8 hours if you're lucky and then needs to charge for several hours.

[freebeard]

So how do you make steel with out coke[,?] or glass[,?] and cement with out natural gas?

Sorry.

...an electric rock truck that costs substantially more than a diesel and might run for 8 hours if you're lucky and then needs to charge for several hours...

Baby steps. I like the 14,00V power line for the shovel, it must follow it around like a big extension cord.