Daox's 1997 Paseo Build Thread

[jedi_sol]

Originally Posted by Daox

Now looking at it, it would be pretty cool if the Toyota emblem flipped up and out or something, and the plug was behind it.

That's what I was about to say

[Automcdonough]

I'm interested in seeing some more accurate results on this alternator disable. I would expect that the difference in MPG is not even measurable in an apples to apples test.

Your experience in having the car being loaded even worse than turning the AC on is what I would expect when you're suddenly trying to top off a deep-cycle battery! That is not a fair comparison to driving with it topped off the whole time. Your alternator is likely doing 100% of capacity for the first few minutes.

Also consider some of the side effects to the system running ~12V instead of ~14V. This is a solid 10~15% reduction in spark voltage! might explain why those plugs aren't working so hot anymore.
Fuel pressure probly not an issue with your driving style, but again reducing voltage to the pump isn't gonna help it keep up.
Bulb brightness is not linear, likely 60% but you mentioned turning it back on for night driving. Safety issue.

Overall I would argue that it is adding quite a bit of unreliability and trouble over less gains than you would see by putting your underdrive pulley back on. And a lighter battery wouldn't hurt.

Also I have an issue with your kill switch.. the crankshaft position sensor is the most delicate noise-prone and critical line you could have chosen to introduce trouble into. The switch's presence in the circuit could easily be a source of misfire issues, plus throw the ECU into odd limp-home operating modes. I would suggest the fuel pump or ignition circuit sources for this venture, but ultimately my suggestion to someone willing to do this sort of stuff is to install megasquirt.. this will open up a whole new world of knobs to tweak, plus let you do all of these things through a laptop instead of hacks.

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by Automcdonough

I'm interested in seeing some more accurate results on this alternator disable. I would expect that the difference in MPG is not even measurable in an apples to apples test.

You'd be incorrect there.



Methodology & other details: Plug-in Blackfly: going alternator optional nets +10% mpg - MetroMPG.com

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I didn't know you ran an alternator delete?

Neither did I. And sorry for this OT, but Andrew your fuel log is ridiculous. When will it stop going up?

[jedi_sol]

Sorry to jack the thread, but since we're on the topic of alternators, my mpgs drop by 3-5mpg (according to my mpguino) when i disable the field wire to my alternator. This is the main reason why i've put a hold on going full alternator delete/solar panel charger.

Any of you honda guys experience this? Engine is an 1994 acura integra gsr (b18c1).

[PaleMelanesian]

Originally Posted by Daox

I didn't know you ran an alternator delete? Why the onboard charger?

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Neither did I. And sorry for this OT, but Andrew your fuel log is ridiculous. When will it stop going up?

My alternator is still fully connected. It just runs so little (since the engine is mostly off) that it can't keep up with the charging. Honda's electrical systems are built on a "just enough" philosophy, and I'm really pushing that past its limit. It's a 51R battery, about 1/2 the size of many other cars. I'm using 1-2 kwh a tank, so it's not much.

going up? Stopping? NEVER! This next one will be even better. That's likely the limit, though. This summer has been HOT HOT HOT, which helps the mpg. I'm starting school dropoff service next week, and then cooler weather comes.

Thanks, guys!

[Daox]

Originally Posted by jedi_sol

Sorry to jack the thread, but since we're on the topic of alternators, my mpgs drop by 3-5mpg (according to my mpguino) when i disable the field wire to my alternator. This is the main reason why i've put a hold on going full alternator delete/solar panel charger.

Any of you honda guys experience this? Engine is an 1994 acura integra gsr (b18c1).

This has been talked about in other threads (randomly). The mpguino measures the amount of time that the injector is open. More accurately, it measures how much time the injector gets power. If you lower your voltage, the injector opens a bit more slowly thus injecting less fuel for the same amount of time it is powered up. This throws off the calibration of your mpguino. I don't think it would account for a 3-5 mpg difference, but that is likely part of the problem.

[Daox]

Originally Posted by Automcdonough

Also consider some of the side effects to the system running ~12V instead of ~14V. This is a solid 10~15% reduction in spark voltage! might explain why those plugs aren't working so hot anymore.

This has been tested by another on our forum, and he did see an increase in bumping the ignition voltage back up to ~14V. I do have an idea for doing this, I just haven't done it yet.

Here is his thread: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...e-up-7551.html

Also I have an issue with your kill switch.. the crankshaft position sensor is the most delicate noise-prone and critical line you could have chosen to introduce trouble into. The switch's presence in the circuit could easily be a source of misfire issues, plus throw the ECU into odd limp-home operating modes. I would suggest the fuel pump or ignition circuit sources for this venture, but ultimately my suggestion to someone willing to do this sort of stuff is to install megasquirt.. this will open up a whole new world of knobs to tweak, plus let you do all of these things through a laptop instead of hacks.

I am still thinking how I'll revamp the kill switch. Killing the ignition is a good idea. However, for now it is working fine. It immediately goes back into closed loop when I restart the engine.

[Automcdonough]

Originally Posted by Daox

This has been tested by another on our forum, and he did see an increase in bumping the ignition voltage back up to ~14V. I do have an idea for doing this, I just haven't done it yet.

Here is his thread: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...e-up-7551.html

I'm not familiar with the car he did that to, but isolating the precise reason he got better economy would be nice. They were discussing injector opening times and fuel pressures but if there was a conclusion then I missed it. It's hard to know how well the OEM ECU compensates without having a wideband o2 sensor hooked up.
My car runs a return style fuel setup, converting to a regulated non-return pump would certainly shave some watts of use off, plus make playing with the pressure easier than buying a set of FPR's to swap.

[Daox]

True, he never posted solid info IMO that showed there was a large gain. This is one reason I haven't pursued it yet.

[Olympiadis]

Daox, Have you tried or know of anyone who has tried one of these PowerStream DC-DC converters?
12 volt DC/DC converters regulator from 100 to 700 Watts.

I'm considering trying one of these out.

Also, what is the power draw of your alternator with the field and regulator energized, but the engine not running?

My alternator has a 0.2 volt and 5.45 amp draw when energized (key in run position), but not charging.

At least with my Focus, this seems to be a significant draw of power even when not charging. I haven't separated the regulator power from the field because it's not so simple in this particular design so I'm unsure which is causing the big drain. I'm likely to just swap to a different alternator type before getting that far though.