Drill Our Way Out!

[bbjsw10]

Originally Posted by Clev

Yeah, and instead, we got exactly the opposite. "They want you to be scared. Show you're not scared by going out and buying, buying, buying! Hey, if you fake a business reason, we'll let you write off a new vehicle, but only if it's big enough!"

I am so po-ed about this exact thing any vehicle above 6000lbs can recieve a refund of $100,000.00 and a EV take a wild guess.............$4000.00 WTF is that all about? OIL,OIL,OIL the Feds are owned by it.

The only bad thing is what do cars still need if we have electric vehicles? Wheel bearing grease, brake fluid, plastic, tires, etc. all of which are petroleum based.
They will just drive up cost substantially on those products.

[Clev]

Originally Posted by bbjsw10

The only bad thing is what do cars still need if we have electric vehicles? Wheel bearing grease, brake fluid, plastic, tires, etc. all of which are petroleum based.
They will just drive up cost substantially on those products.

Well, plastic, brake fluid and tires can at least be recycled into other products, but I'm willing to bet that if we weaned ourselves completely off fossil fuels, there's be plenty of oil reserves in the US to meet our plastic, brake fluid and tire needs for a VERY long time.

[bbjsw10]

Originally Posted by Clev

oil reserves in the US to meet our plastic, brake fluid and tire needs for a VERY long time.

I totally agree with this, but at same time U.S. Government is so wrapped up in oil they would not allow it to come cheap.

Pretty funny the same tax break I spoke of came out in 2003, the same year the H2 was released. What better than having a H2 for status, and trend setter. A lot of people saw those and were like Ohhh I have to get one, found out price and bought a different SUV I work at a truck shop saw it all the time.

[rmay635703]

1st off 75% (sometimes more sometimes less) of US oil is sent overseas and never comes into our market, legislate that to be illegal for now. (oddly enough the Exon valsleeze was going to a foreign refinery, imagine if that were illegal, it would have probably never happened)

Also, Something few here or anywhere seem to remember was the massive shutdowns of the small oilmen starting with Nixon and ending with Reagan.

My great Uncle worked for a small producer in Kentucky during the 70's and they were forced to shutdown at 100% production because Nixon helped to change the deed system at a federal level. I forget the specifics but most small owners especially in Oklahoma through Kentucky who owned their land under whole or full deeds (which generally included mineral rights) were forced to close after their mineral/oil rights were removed or invalidated by the government. To add insult to injury many times the wells were never reopened and if a large interest did want to do so, it would almost always drill a new well whereever it pleased on their land stating fair access to mineral/oil rights. It was estimated that 25% of our capacity went down the drain with these closures and many of the wells are still there and could potentially be reopened. My Great Uncles family also had a natural gas well on their farm that they used to heat their home which they were forced to close, I guess there are still a few with private wells of this type but most were forced out of the free heat.

There are many estimates that about 2/3's of the total liquid continental oil in the lower 48 is still there and we could be oil independant for a time if we were to open the dozens of oil refineries that have been mothballed and unused within the US. We would also have to pump sea water to do so but it still is easier than waiting 8-25yrs to develope offshore assets and disrupt greenhouse causing methane in the process.

As opposed to drilling new wells, why not uncap existing ones that were producing at closure? It doesn't take much to uncap as compared to drill new.

If we were to take the time to make ourselfs oil dependant for a period (before we use it up) we should take the effort and money saved to develope as many alternatives as we can and develope a way to IR (heat)and vacuum the methane off the gulf and pacific as 100 billion metric tons might take a while to use. Not to mention it is replenished at a rate of 33 million tons a year in the gulf alone, no small resource.

Use the methane to power cars by converting them to CNG, if we could reduce the US conversion cost from $14k down to the mexican conversion cost of $800 installed we could easily become independant of foreign oil.

Contrary to popular belief the methane is actually too easy to disrupt, I don't think it would be that hard to suck up once unfrozen.

Originally Posted by bikin' Ed

I kinda like the idea of drilling, with the mandate that all of our oil stays here in the US. I believe it would bring the price of gasoline down and create many new jobs. Most of us have always been "hypermilers" of some sort most of our lives--we just didn't know it or have a name for it. We are, by nature the appointed stewards of the land and it is our lot to conserve and teach others to do the same. It is just as important to conserve $2/gal fuel as it is $4 fuel, as there is a limited quantity. Unfortunately, it is a sign of our times that the general public doesn't care about anything until it directly affects them personally. If we could bring about a change of attitude all of the rest would work itself out.

I agree with this to a point but the truth is Americans are not taught to save or to value any of the things our great grandparents would have assumed common sense, it is sad that we have become a country of consumers as opposed to citizens and stewards. Perhaps this is one case where a more structured school environment to teach things other than math, reading, rithmatic might help to teach children to do differently since their parents obviously viemently fight any attempts at change.

[bbjsw10]

But back on topic I don't believe drilling is the correct way to deal with this. We need to force auto manufacturers to build what WE want not what they give us. The technology is there if Men like Darin,Ben, and Paul can build an EV using forklift parts, bed frames, clothes hangers for all I know. GM, Ford, Honda, Toyota, and the rest sure the hell can do it. I didn't remember seeing 20 engineers in Ben's garage with his Metro.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by bbjsw10

But back on topic I don't believe drilling is the correct way to deal with this. We need to force auto manufacturers to build what WE want not what they give us. The technology is there if Men like Darin,Ben, and Paul can build an EV using forklift parts, bed frames, clothes hangers for all I know. GM, Ford, Honda, Toyota, and the rest sure the hell can do it. I didn't remember seeing 20 engineers in Ben's garage with his Metro.

Exactly, sad thing is the big boys that make the most off of oil also have large interests in car companies. They are willing to take losses on one to make more money on the other.

If the lowsy vehicle restrictions could be relaxed somewhat like they are on motorcycles, we could import Japanese kei size cars, small diesels and other vehicles from foreign countries that natively get 40-70mpg without anything special, not to mention many of them are fairly cheap.

I have been trying to figure out how to get a runnable Honda or Subaru 360 for years as it would be exactly what I need for slightly longer distance trips, sadly they have to be over 25yrs old to be legal here. Some in England with Subaru 360's were able to drive lightly and get over 70mpg (eq.) in a little Subaru 360, not bad for late 1950's technology.

[bbjsw10]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

a little Subaru 360,

Off-topic but looked it up from not hearing about it. That is a cool lil car like a VW bug only smaller.

[ankit]

WOW! On the fourth of july I wanted to make this same exact thread. I even wrote a couple of paragraphs but didn't want to get too political and upset members here so I didn't.

I went to Liberty University (Home of the late Dr. Jerry Falwell) for some fireworks and a politician had volunteers handing out pamphlets on how drilling is the only answer. In his speech he made everything else seem like a stupid alternative. The worst part, I was one of the very very few that actually saw straight through this. I guess people will just believe what they hear.

Then the commercials of drilling sparked my engine up to make this thread again. I'm not going to comment on the situation since most of what I wanted to say has already been covered, but I'm just glad that some of you share my views.

[nowhhs]

Originally Posted by bbjsw10

But back on topic I don't believe drilling is the correct way to deal with this. We need to force auto manufacturers to build what WE want not what they give us.

It seems to me that this is one of the major problems we're facing. Manufacturers are giving "us" what we want. Unfortunately most American consumers don't realize that what they want is not whats ultimately in their best interest. Until gas reached $3, people wanted H2s and jacked up trucks with V10 engines. The only way that mindset will change is if gas stays that expensive. As soon as it goes back down, if it ever does, people will go right back to buying those FSPs and you'll see the hybrids sitting unsold on the lots. And that is also the problem with trying to drill our way out of this. If it succeeds in lowering the cost of gas, which IMO it won't, it only postpones the inevitable. The motivation to change, whether exploring new technologies or just conserving, comes from high gas prices, nothing else.
BTW, I've been very impressed with the civility shown throughout this thread. When I saw it started, I never expected to see this much respect for others' opinions. Well done.

[RH77]

Originally Posted by nowhhs

When I saw it started, I never expected to see this much respect for others' opinions. Well done.

For what it's worth, same here