Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > DIY / How-to
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-21-2009, 12:13 PM   #1 (permalink)
Minimal to the maximum
 
bucknmusky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Appleton, WI
Posts: 12

Enola Gay 2.0 - '02 Chevrolet Cavalier Base coupe
90 day: 40.44 mpg (US)

White-tail Hearse - '02 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 LT extended cab
90 day: 15.3 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Dual Fuel, electric rear wheel drive, gasoline front wheel drive

Since most of us are modding gasoline power cars or replacing gas engines with elec motors and batteries I had this concept. If it has already been invented please let me know where to get one, if not someone here should get on this and the profits are all yours.

Concept: traditional front wheel drive gas powered car has a rear axle which is really nothing more than a trailer axle. Small lightweight cars on the highway only need to overcome air and rolling resistance to move along at cruising speed so horsepower required is low, especially in well areomodded cars.

Replace the rear axle with either 2 motors, one mounted on each reat axle shaft (imagine the rear axle from an S-10) or one large motor mounted where a traditional driveshaft would enter the reat differential. This motor could even be mounted vertially as to put the motor in the trunk to reduce the amount of junk hanging below the vehicle.
place batteries in the car trunk to power the rear electric drive, use regen braking to recharge (maybe)

Car could be run in either mode by putting the front or rear systems in neutral and driving off your choice of power. using a plug in system at home and making short trips you may never have to run the gas motor. Since city driving kills overall mpg you could use elec mode for getting through the city and once on the freeway on ramp switch to gas power where your gas engine, geared high and run at constant speed would be more efficient and have all elec needs fed off of batteries (water pump, power steering) so the engine could be just for driving.

But for now lets start with the rear axle swap out could be just a bolt on system for most small cars, with a battery bank in the trunk, of course Ni-Cd or LiH batteries would be best for weight but the cost factor is still high.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 01-21-2009, 12:51 PM   #2 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,203

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 51.49 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
Mitsubishi
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)

Daox's Volt - '13 Chevrolet Volt
Thanks: 2,501
Thanked 2,587 Times in 1,554 Posts
UW Madison fuel mileage challenge team did that with an GM Equinox. Their largest problem with this setup was the regenerative braking only on the rear wheels doesn't let you recapture much juice compared to front wheel regen.

Its been thought up before, just never done by OEMs.
__________________
Current project: A better alternator delete
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2009, 12:53 PM   #3 (permalink)
NightKnight
 
NachtRitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Placerville, CA
Posts: 1,595

Helga - '00 Volkswagen Jetta TDI
TEAM VW AUDI Group
Diesel
90 day: 51.85 mpg (US)

Mathilde - '99 Volkswagen Eurovan Camper
90 day: 16.87 mpg (US)
Thanks: 315
Thanked 314 Times in 187 Posts
Very similar concept as the XR3 (XR3 Hybrid: Personal Mobility Vehicle (PMV) Automotive Prototype Project)... though that is a "plan-built" vehicle. Diesel powered front wheel drive, electric powered rear wheel drive.

Cool idea!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2009, 12:56 PM   #4 (permalink)
Wannabe greenie
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Yorba Linda, CA
Posts: 1,098

The Clunker (retired) - '90 Honda Accord EX sedan
Team Honda
90 day: 29.49 mpg (US)

Mountain Goat - '96 Ford Ranger XLT 4x4 SuperCab
90 day: 18 mpg (US)

Zippy - '10 Kymco Agility 125
90 day: 65.03 mpg (US)
Thanks: 5
Thanked 53 Times in 40 Posts
I like it, but using an AWD car (or one with an AWD variant) would be true "bolt-on." Looking at my Accord, it seems likely that cutting and/or fabrication would be involved. One way to keep the motor out of the sludge would be to have it facing down out of the trunk, and rotating the differential so the coupler is pointing up. Anybody see a problem with this?

Could be done with a RWD pickup too. Run the normal RWD gasoline drivetrain, and then put in a FWD differential and axle and direct-drive it. Like Daox said, you get better regen off the front (more weight transfer means more regen before skidding starts.)
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2009, 02:11 PM   #5 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 1,096

2k2Prot5 - '02 Mazda Protege5
90 day: 33.82 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts
There was a concept mitsu Eclipse that had gas front drive and electric rear drive... never went to market, of course. This was maybe around 2002-2004?
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2009, 02:14 PM   #6 (permalink)
Wannabe greenie
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Yorba Linda, CA
Posts: 1,098

The Clunker (retired) - '90 Honda Accord EX sedan
Team Honda
90 day: 29.49 mpg (US)

Mountain Goat - '96 Ford Ranger XLT 4x4 SuperCab
90 day: 18 mpg (US)

Zippy - '10 Kymco Agility 125
90 day: 65.03 mpg (US)
Thanks: 5
Thanked 53 Times in 40 Posts
Dodge Durango Hybrid - Tech Stuff/Green Machines/Car Shopping/Hot Lists/Reviews/Car and Driver - Car And Driver

Dodge's "Through the Road" hybrid, never got to market. One cool feature was that the electric drivetrain could cover the hesitation while the automatic transmission shifted, resulting in smooth acceleration.
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2009, 02:21 PM   #7 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,530

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 54.46 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)

Appliance car Mirage - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 62.14 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,078
Thanked 6,978 Times in 3,613 Posts
VW Golf Twin Drive prototype pretty much matches the description:

__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2009, 02:28 PM   #8 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,530

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 54.46 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)

Appliance car Mirage - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 62.14 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,078
Thanked 6,978 Times in 3,613 Posts
Details of the VW Golf Twin Drive:

VW Twin Drive Is German for Volt | Autopia from Wired.com

It's an interesting setup.
__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2009, 08:36 PM   #9 (permalink)
NightKnight
 
NachtRitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Placerville, CA
Posts: 1,595

Helga - '00 Volkswagen Jetta TDI
TEAM VW AUDI Group
Diesel
90 day: 51.85 mpg (US)

Mathilde - '99 Volkswagen Eurovan Camper
90 day: 16.87 mpg (US)
Thanks: 315
Thanked 314 Times in 187 Posts
Cute!! Car's not bad either...
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2009, 09:10 PM   #10 (permalink)
Moderate your Moderation.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Troy, Pa.
Posts: 8,919

Pasta - '96 Volkswagen Passat TDi
90 day: 45.22 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,369
Thanked 430 Times in 353 Posts
So... Don't electric motors typically have two sides to the armature?

What would keep someone from mounting it between the rear hubs of an AWD car, and using a custom drive shaft on each side? I know that bench grinders (not enough power, I know) have dual shafts on them, and I can't see a reason why an armature could not be modded or a custom armature built by a machine shop that would allow for such a mod..

The cool thing is that if it were only used for acceleration assist it would only need little added weight from batteries... it's not like the engine won't be running, and producing power from the same fuel that it would be burning anyway is only logical, or at least using an alternator at idle to load the engine a little bit to help provide that power to reduce weight of batteries, but only using the alternator when the e-motor is working.

Conversely, using an e-motor of good size would limit the actual ICE power needed to keep the vehicle at a constant speed, or even to accelerate, so a smaller gas engine could be used.

Just tossing that other stuff out there, but primarily the idea that you could power the rear hubs of an AWD vehicle quite easily/cheaply (custom CV axles aren't THAT expensive.)

__________________
"¿ʞɐǝɹɟ ɐ ǝɹ,noʎ uǝɥʍ 'ʇı ʇ,usı 'ʎlǝuol s,ʇı"

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Electric car conversion: Project ForkenSwift MetroMPG Fossil Fuel Free 1051 Yesterday 01:02 PM
smart cdi (diesel) owner from BC, Canada smartzuuk Introductions 29 09-06-2018 04:09 PM
Hydrogen Generator Experiment willy57 DIY / How-to 601 08-23-2016 06:53 AM
mileage computer for a carbureted engine diesel_john Instrumentation 221 05-01-2014 11:38 PM
DIY Rubber Front Wheel Skirts newtonsfirstlaw DIY / How-to 32 05-19-2011 08:45 AM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com