First time I've seen a change in toe quantified, Car and Driver 1st gen Insight test.

[MetroMPG]

saand - I can't recall anyone trying to test this mod. I think it's worth adding to the list though, with the reference to the article.

[saand]

MetroMPG sounds like a good plan, I have made up the page and put it in the unproven list for the moment. Maybe it will inspire someone to do a test on the mod

[Peter7307]

My car , a locally built GM vehicle with the old 3.8 V6 and the 4L60E trans , has zero camber and zero toe from the factory.
The straight line stability comes from caster at 8 degrees.
The front end is a standard MacPherson Strut and the rear is a coil sprung IRS.

From the driver point of view the handling is fine and the straight line running is good although a little susceptible to moving around in strong cross winds.

Altering tyres pressures has a huge difference in steering feel.
I suspect the changes result in the pneumatic trail being altered but I am not able to confirm it.

Just some observations.

Peter.

[comptiger5000]

My Jeep specs 0.12* of toe, but the acceptable range is 0* - 0.22*. I would try it (toe should be close to spec, Jeep was aligned to factory specs recently), but this thing already gets pushed a bit in crosswinds, and follows road crowning like crazy.

[Arragonis]

The original Jazz / Fit had a similar setting. Dropped for the mk2 one I think because the steering felt less stable at higher speeds. Improved on later ones.

EDIT : I had my front end checked recently and it was toeing out. No wonder it would follow any white line and pull side to side on full chat. Not good.

Originally Posted by jamesqf

"Don't even think about dialing a cell phone while driving any car."

Fixed for truth

[Fr3AkAzOiD]

I'm willing to try it as I'm getting new tires put on in about a month and was debating an alignment anyway.

I just need to find out what the stock settings are for toe, caster, and camber are on my '08 Cobalt XFE.

Have had no luck finding it on Google, guess I will have to bug the local dealership.

[saand]

fr3akazoid from the reported MPG gains it does look like a worthwhile modification. I had already done this modification by accident when i changed my power steering rack to manual.

If you want to see if the modification makes some improvment and if you do get your car aligned with 0 toe you will only be able to gauge the improvement by running with 0 toe from the alignment then alter the toe yourself run for a while then set it back to 0 toe and see the change. You may get MPG changes with the new wheels.

I also cant find my factory set toe, caster and camber not even in the workshop manual

[ShadeTreeMech]

depending on the vehicle and type of steering the toe setting will be different.

On rear wheel drive you want a bit of toe in since the wheels will be pushed to closer to a zero toe setting as the vehicle is driven. As parts wear, the actual toe setting while being driven will head toward the toe out.

On front wheel drive, toe out is desireable since the wheels will be forced to toe in somewhat under acceleration. Due to the tendency of front wheel drive to understeer, it also helps to lower the tire wear on the outside of the tread.

On AWD it varies from one car to the next, depending on which is most likely to be the main drive axle. Some older Subarus had front wheel drive with rear wheel drive in 4wd mode, so I would expect a tendency to be set up more as a front wheel drive vehicle.

If you have zero toe, and your steering components are in good shape (no slop in the tie rod ends, ball joints, or upper strut supports) you toe while driving should remain mostly static. But it will feel like the rear of the car wants to spin out of control, and the steering will be very touchy. your tire wear will be excellent, but a different driver of said vehicle stands a good chance of have a one vehicle wreck. I had a Ford Escort with good tires and a perfect alignment with good steering components. Going around a corner that is easily done at 50 with my minivan felt like I was about to lose control. I adjusted to have 1/8th an inch of toe out and it totally changed the driving feel of the car. The steering was still crisp, but the extreme feel of imminent oversteer was gone. I could go around the corner much faster with confidance and without squalling the tires.

If you don't live in an area with a lot of curves in the road, I would highly recommend a zero toe, since it would surely increase fuel economy and tire longevity. For straight line driving it is the optimum setting. But if where you live there are hills and high speed curves, you will prefer the factory settings.

FYI I studied (and passed) a course in suspension, steering and braking last year, so this is a subject I'm very familiar with. I haven't needed to go to an alignment shop for about 2 years now; using a tape measure and basic hand tools I can get an alignment that is within 1% of spec of what a good shop would do. Anyone with the willingness to learn the ropes and patience to do a good job can align their own vehicle; consider it shade tree mechanics 201.

[comptiger5000]

Good point about the FWD vs RWD thing. In the case of certain solid front axle vehicles (such as my Jeep, and maybe a few IFS trucks as well), the toe changes with suspension travel. In other words, as you go over a bump, you gain a bit of toe-out, which comes back to normal after you clear the bump. Thus, 0 toe can be a bad thing.

[saand]

shadetreemech thanks for your post looks like you know much more than me about this subject.
You mention your able to do your own alignment with good accuracy, i wonder if you can give some tips and tricks for measuring alignment. I am particularly interested to improve the wiki page so the general group will be able to easily modify their toe in, See the current page here
Toe In - EcoModder
if you have any suggestions for changes or additions feel free to modify the wiki or if your not familiar with how to change it PM me or post your suggestions and ill put in the changes or maybe you can just refer me to a good online how to you have come across