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Old 11-19-2019, 04:14 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Michelin Energy Savers get the best MPG's. I'm averaging 53 mpg/ yr now, I have had two tanks with 68 mpg on trips with my 2013 FORD CMAX Hybrid.

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Old 11-19-2019, 11:27 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Hey Matt,

I thought I had an easy solution for you that would have you easily winning here. I reviewed your parameters here and the best I can do is for you start your quest at Hoosier Hill. This is the highest point in Indiana. Admiringly it doesn't say you have to pull this off in Indiana, so I'd fine the highest point to start from and that would get you 60 mpg. Should be easy to win this bet!

Good luck.
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Old 11-20-2019, 11:10 AM   #43 (permalink)
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They seemed to think of hills. "Test will be repeated in the other direction." Also, "Coasting is only allowed once the car runs out of gas." It sounds like he needs a long stretch of level ground, otherwise he would run the risk of running out of gas while climbing a hill.
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Old 11-20-2019, 03:42 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Marvel mystery oil
Remove all but driver’s seat!
Also, you can travel at 45mph on most highways
Use painter tape on all vehicle seals and seams
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Old 11-21-2019, 04:09 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwamiSalami View Post
Marvel mystery oil
Remove all but driver’s seat!
Also, you can travel at 45mph on most highways
Use painter tape on all vehicle seals and seams
https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...tml#post449013

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile View Post
There you have it folks, if you have a 94 Mercury, 25MPH is your target speed.
https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...tml#post449074

According to that test, a 1994 Villager gets 31 MPG at 25 MPH. M_a_t_t's vehicle page for his 1995 Tracer says that it is rated 31 MPG highway. 55 MPH? 65 MPH?

That chart says the Villager got 32 MPG at 55 MPH, so I would argue that is the target speed. That particular Mercury got 25 MPG at 65 MPH. Does that relate to M_a_t_t's Tracer?

It is a start.

It turns out the Villager is a minivan rated 17/23. If the Tracer is rated 31 at approximately 65 MPH, maybe it will get 39.68 at 55 MPH, and worse at 45 MPH.

We have had different discussions about accelerating. Some say that it is vital and some say that it makes zero difference. This is easy enough to test, and it might make a necessary difference.

How far can you coast from 65 MPH? I cannot find anything on-line.

Gasoline Fumes talked about airing up your tires. Metro tested coasting distance at different pressures, but I would recommend you tested out your particular car, area, and tires: https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...tire-2721.html

He went another 13% going from 30 - 35 PSI to 50. I do not know how that relates to fuel economy improvements, but if you drove forty miles on one gallon and then coasted one mile at 30 - 35 PSI, that might get you another 700 feet, a total improvement of 0.3%, but if you make enough small improvements, you may meet your goal.

I asked about MMO here. In another thread [that I cannot find] someone told me "I would just leave it on the shelf." However, you could absolutely buy a jug, add it every other tank, and see if you notice a difference.

I just reread the thread, forgetting that you removed the seats. If you dropped from 2,404 pounds to 2,304, you decreased 4.3%, and Aerohead says you should see a 2.1% improvement.

Okay, 2000mc linked his Saturn chart, 37.1 MPG at 65 MPH, and 42.8 at 55. That is 15% better fuel economy, but 115% of 31 MPG is 35.65.

I do not know if we can find enough small improvements to increase your highway fuel economy by 93.5%, but we will keep trying to come up with ideas.

How is the boat tail coming? Have you done a grill block and air dam? That should get you a couple percent, usually most of the benefit of a belly pan, for a fraction of the effort.

You might as well tape the seams, but do not expect much more than even weirder looks:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cd View Post
Check out this link and follow it halfway down.

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/paint-b...-aerodynamics/

You will find this comment :

"Taping seams: Rarely if ever are body-panel seams so large and misaligned that smoothing them with duct tape will make a measurable difference in Cd. We tried it on our Camaro, and it did nothing. "

This was on a 1980 Camaro with body seams big enough to walk through.

Read more: Car Aerodynamics - Hot Rod Magazine
Follow us: @HotRodMagazine on Twitter | HotRodMag on Facebook
https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...tml#post465763
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Old 11-25-2019, 11:13 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Hopefully next week I will have more data to update this thread with. I will put what I know so far though. I did fill up after 124.8 miles and used 3.991 gallons = 31.3 mpg. This was again about 50/50 city/highway. I did a calibration to the mpguino and most of the current data will be based on that, so there maybe some error in the info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xist View Post
According to that test, a 1994 Villager gets 31 MPG at 25 MPH. M_a_t_t's vehicle page for his 1995 Tracer says that it is rated 31 MPG highway. 55 MPH? 65 MPH?

That chart says the Villager got 32 MPG at 55 MPH, so I would argue that is the target speed. That particular Mercury got 25 MPG at 65 MPH. Does that relate to M_a_t_t's Tracer?

After the calibration and being at operating temp I was maintaining @35 mph and instant readout was 50 mpg! that made me feel warm inside

It is a start.

It turns out the Villager is a minivan rated 17/23. If the Tracer is rated 31 at approximately 65 MPH, maybe it will get 39.68 at 55 MPH, and worse at 45 MPH.
This is actually very close to what I saw (before calibration) on my commute to work. (~40 mpg @ 50-51 mph) I think my peak is below 55 probably about 40-45.

We have had different discussions about accelerating. Some say that it is vital and some say that it makes zero difference. This is easy enough to test, and it might make a necessary difference.

How far can you coast from 65 MPH? I cannot find anything on-line.

I am trying to think of a good test track, but have nothing yet though I would be interested in finding out.

Gasoline Fumes talked about airing up your tires. Metro tested coasting distance at different pressures, but I would recommend you tested out your particular car, area, and tires: https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...tire-2721.html

He went another 13% going from 30 - 35 PSI to 50. I do not know how that relates to fuel economy improvements, but if you drove forty miles on one gallon and then coasted one mile at 30 - 35 PSI, that might get you another 700 feet, a total improvement of 0.3%, but if you make enough small improvements, you may meet your goal.

I currently have them set between 45 and 50 psi

I asked about MMO here. In another thread [that I cannot find] someone told me "I would just leave it on the shelf." However, you could absolutely buy a jug, add it every other tank, and see if you notice a difference.

I haven't heard of using it this way. Is it supposed to improve mileage or clean your system?

I just reread the thread, forgetting that you removed the seats. If you dropped from 2,404 pounds to 2,304, you decreased 4.3%, and Aerohead says you should see a 2.1% improvement.

I did not realize the scale needed to be on a hard floor (vs carpet) so the number I posted is off. I did however remove the taillights and trunk in addition to the interior stuff I posted. However, I added a 60 lb deep cycle battery. I want to stop by the scrap yard and have the car weighed just to get an actual number. I am ~130 lbs so I think the overall weight with me in the car is probably still around 2400 lbs

Okay, 2000mc linked his Saturn chart, 37.1 MPG at 65 MPH, and 42.8 at 55. That is 15% better fuel economy, but 115% of 31 MPG is 35.65.

I do not know if we can find enough small improvements to increase your highway fuel economy by 93.5%, but we will keep trying to come up with ideas.

How is the boat tail coming? Have you done a grill block and air dam? That should get you a couple percent, usually most of the benefit of a belly pan, for a fraction of the effort.

I finished the tail, though I still need to put some more lights in. I put an upper grille block on and air dam, but ended up taking the air dam off. Now that I have the mpguino I might do some testing with the airdam on vs. off. I want to do a belly pan, but spending the time and the fact that nothing sticks below the bumper cover anyway doesn't motivate me enough. I also bought some mirrors so I can delete the side view mirrors. Wheel skirts are high on my list as well.

You might as well tape the seams, but do not expect much more than even weirder looks:

https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...tml#post465763

I think I will do some of the hairsplitting things like tape seams and remove wipers kind of stuff the day of the test.
I changed the oil to a synthetic 0w-20 with new filter as well as a new air filter.

I'm not sure lean burn is working and I'm not sure why. What is the best indicator of lean burn engaging? I remember a hesitation before the boat tail, now I don't feel anything and the mpguino doesn't appear to jump around like some have described. I have devised a different method of maintaining throttle position (resting my foot against the center console) so some more testing will need to be done, but if I can't get it back I might just buy a wideband and mod the car for it.
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Last edited by M_a_t_t; 11-25-2019 at 11:28 PM..
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Old 11-26-2019, 05:07 AM   #47 (permalink)
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I noticed a slight loss of power when I entered lean burn; I needed to accelerate slightly more even though I was on level ground.

MMO claims to provide:
Quote:
Superior Cleaning for Engines & Fuel Systems; Reduces Wear & Tear on Engines; Increases Gas Mileage
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Old 11-26-2019, 06:56 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Some users have reported entering lean burn easier with MMO. If so, it could provide a greater increase than for other vehicles, but I would want to see testing. Project Farm compared it to Seafoam:

MMO seemed to clean better, but reduced compression. Now, the piston travels a set distance, while carbon can shrink the chamber, so I guess that compression tests are not the most important factor.

Shouty says that it is great for soaking parts, but not for adding to your gas:

Of course, Shouty does not like Seafoam either:

He says that you should use something like Chevron's Techron (or fill up at Chevron). He did say that MMO worked in old cars and I believe that yours qualifies. It does not have the newfangled technologies that he said are incompatible.
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Old 11-26-2019, 07:46 AM   #49 (permalink)
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“Lean burn” as you call it, is engaged a couple of ways. But let’s call it what it is - fuel cutoff during deceleration.

There are a couple ways this happens:

1. Time based, let off gas pedal for x amount of time, fuel is decreased/cut off to injectors. It’s somewhere in the 15-30 seconds range according to temp of car, speed, etc.

2. Charcoal canister purge operation, after roughly 1 minute of steady throttle. Valve opens and vents fuel fumes to intake and burns then off.

Your car doesn’t haven’t a lean burn mode like the old Honda lean burn cars of twenty years ago. A lean burn setup requires a wideband O2 and specific tuning to do it.

Having an automatic trans makes your job even harder. Ideally you need to be at 35mph or below, but trans won’t be in top gear. But 45mph can work.

Good luck with your quest - I think you will fall short and manage around 50mpg on your round trip assuming boat tail, weight removal, super aired up tires, etc. That’s my official guess.
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Old 11-26-2019, 07:55 AM   #50 (permalink)
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That is not lean burn at all.

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