Fuel Mileage mods simplicity

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by radioranger

Amy threads up here on water injection? My little Ranger gets a bit more power on rainy days and fog smooths it right out,

What do you want to know besides the fact that it only seems to hurt fuel economy on gas engines?

[oil pan 4]

The anti-ware addtive in oil is not zinc phospate, its zinc based.
The chemical you speek of is Zinc dithiophosphate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .

Oil mixers didn't stop using it, they just cut out half to 2/3 of the ZDDP found in older oils when compairing SH to modern SM rated oils. You can still get oil with high 1980s levels of ZDDP you have to look for SH or SJ rated oils, such as royal purple (SJ) or mobil1 MX4T 10w-40 or V-Twin 15w-50 (SC rated).
Or buy ZDDP by the quart, $60 for a quart of oil addtive that contains very high levels of ZDDP, up to 50% if I remember right.

[mcrews]

Originally Posted by rattroddrebel

It would seem that i need to explain what fuel additives do. There is no "magic chemical". Fuel additives are not designed to improve fuel quality. They are designed to remove the residue left from ethanol based fuels, and lower grades of fuels. If you vehicle has been driven for 10,000 miles and you do not understand the design of the vehicle that you are driving, you just get in and go, and unless it stops running well you basically do

Fuel additives like "sea-foam" do not publish their ingredients. I will shop around to see if I can find an MSDS on that product.

yeah dont you hate those sneaky companies......gezzzzz
Funny, went to the sea foanm company site.....guess what....they had a link to their MSDS sheets......
.Sea Foam | MSDS Downloads
took me 4 seconds.



Amsoil is not on the shelves to control costs. Wanna know how things get on the shelf at Walmart?
1) Ingredient supplier
2) Manufacturer
3) Wholesaler
4) Distributor
5) Vendor
6) Retail

These are not in order but you get the point. There are so many middle men in retail the costs cannot be controlled, just like the gasoline and oil you are buying, too many hands in the pot.

Well, that's not really how it works. Your logic is flawed.
First, to get on the shelf at walmart you have to reinvent your dist model to reduce costs so walmart has your item cheaper than anybody else.
By just blurting out something like the above which is factually incorrect, you look like the salesman your are trying to claim you arent.
For example: Slick 50 was sold thru 'dealers' for many yrs in the 80's. Final retail price was 29.95
Today you can buy it at walmat for $10-15
And I believe penzoil owns it.
Pretty much destroys your thoughts on distribution.
I could write a several pages on pricing and distribution BUT my point is this....your spouting Amsoil company propaganda and talking points.


Amsoil you can either buy online, a retail outlet, or a dealer, or you can become a preferred member and but it at dealer cost. Not to mention this company has the ONLY oil that has a 25,000 mile oil change interval. No other oil can do that, would that save you money on oil changes? It also cleans the sludge out of the block, what conventional has left behind.

Sorry guys I am ranting, if anyone would like product information I can provide it. But before you "hate" on salesman, just know that I have documented proof, or you can go online and check out the product for yourselves, there is no "selling".
As long as am a member of this site i will provide any and all information about vehicles that you would like, if you don't that's fine too. I have plenty of information I can share, this is supposed to be fun and we are supposed to help each other. Some members are not clear on that.

Hey wmjinman, I need to know what kind of vehicle you have, how many miles per month you track, a list of all of your mods, area, and average nominal atmospheric temperature of your location, products you have used, type of oil you have used, engine size, tire size, and where you get your information.

WHAT THE HELL FOR?????????????????


I may possibly have a great deal of information for you to use, hell maybe I could increase your mpg's by 25% just by offering simple suggestions that you may not have thought of,interested? Keep in mind that I do this for a living and have access to all publications, TSB's on every vehicle, and my customer base is 30,000 people deep because of my knowledge base. I would love the opportunity to explain all aspects of automotive engineering, industrial engineering, industrial electricity and electronics, and simply "what works and what doesn't". Every product on the market has been tested in my shop. I also homebrew fuel additives that are substantially less expensive to make if you are also interested.

1. leave out the sublte references to 'members' who might disagree
2. learn to write in paragraph form. (you lose credibility when you don't)

[Ecky]

Originally Posted by mcrews

1. leave out the sublte references to 'members' who might disagree
2. learn to write in paragraph form. (you lose credibility when you don't)

I think those 2 points would help your credibility a lot. I'm interested in hearing your claims and perhaps trying the stuff you recommend, but your (lack of) ability to communicate effectively makes it difficult to take you seriously, and sometimes even makes it difficult to understand what you're trying to to say.

No offense intended.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

The anti-ware addtive in oil is not zinc phospate, its zinc based.
The chemical you speek of is Zinc dithiophosphate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .

Oil mixers didn't stop using it, they just cut out half to 2/3 of the ZDDP found in older oils when compairing SH to modern SM rated oils. You can still get oil with high 1980s levels of ZDDP you have to look for SH or SJ rated oils, such as royal purple (SJ) or mobil1 MX4T 10w-40 or V-Twin 15w-50 (SC rated).
Or buy ZDDP by the quart, $60 for a quart of oil addtive that contains very high levels of ZDDP, up to 50% if I remember right.

That's right, ZDDP got cut somewhat because the phosphorous poisons catalytic converters.

I think it's best not to go backwards for the oils though, SN oils have higher standards for other characteristics, if you're really worried about wear you can buy various antiwear additives separately and add them, although it's tricky business since adding too much can negatively impact the effectiveness of detergents and corrosion inhibitors and whatever.

[UltArc]

Originally Posted by rattroddrebel

It would seem that i need to explain what fuel additives do. There is no "magic chemical". Fuel additives are not designed to improve fuel quality. They are designed to remove the residue left from ethanol based fuels, and lower grades of fuels. If you vehicle has been driven for 10,000 miles and you do not understand the design of the vehicle that you are driving, you just get in and go, and unless it stops running well you basically do nothing. You change your oil with whatever at Wal mart or what "daddy" always used, not knowing what an engine looks like after 100,000 miles with conventional oil inside? Times have definitely changed, oil has changed. If you drive a car that dates before 1995 today's oil will not work because it does not have Zinc Phosphate. This chemical was known to destroy catalytic converters. The problem with additives the ones that works that if they remove the debris leftover in the combustion chamber, it collects in the catalytic converter and causes it to overheat and melts it shut. I have changed out 100's due to poor knowledge. To design a hydrocarbon based fuel additive is complicated, and if you have to buy one every tank of gas, you are not saving money. My claim of the Amsoil product comes with 10 pages and pictures of the explanation of data to go with it, when i said "the only way I could do what this does is take the engine apart" is because the test data and pictures are fact, this is how i worded it because this company allows me to do that. Yes I am a salesman but I am also a mechanic that does in my business what I can to share information with all of my customers. I don't have a boat, I don't own my house, and I have no "toys". I do what I can to save my customers money. if this product does what it claims, then I must be able to back that claim up.

Fuel additives like "sea-foam" do not publish their ingredients. I will shop around to see if I can find an MSDS on that product. I do know that if you put that "junk" in your vehicle and it is not a 1978 Chevy, well I personally have dumped over 50 gas tanks with that stuff in it because it broke loose so much crap it filled the exhaust with an oil that saturated the catalytic converter so bad all it did was smoke. It is too much for today's vehicles. It has the consistency of diesel.

Amsoil is not on the shelves to control costs. Wanna know how things get on the shelf at Walmart?
1) Ingredient supplier
2) Manufacturer
3) Wholesaler
4) Distributor
5) Vendor
6) Retail

These are not in order but you get the point. There are so many middle men in retail the costs cannot be controlled, just like the gasoline and oil you are buying, too many hands in the pot.
Amsoil you can either buy online, a retail outlet, or a dealer, or you can become a preferred member and but it at dealer cost. Not to mention this company has the ONLY oil that has a 25,000 mile oil change interval. No other oil can do that, would that save you money on oil changes? It also cleans the sludge out of the block, what conventional has left behind.

Sorry guys I am ranting, if anyone would like product information I can provide it. But before you "hate" on salesman, just know that I have documented proof, or you can go online and check out the product for yourselves, there is no "selling".
As long as am a member of this site i will provide any and all information about vehicles that you would like, if you don't that's fine too. I have plenty of information I can share, this is supposed to be fun and we are supposed to help each other. Some members are not clear on that.

Hey wmjinman, I need to know what kind of vehicle you have, how many miles per month you track, a list of all of your mods, area, and average nominal atmospheric temperature of your location, products you have used, type of oil you have used, engine size, tire size, and where you get your information. I may possibly have a great deal of information for you to use, hell maybe I could increase your mpg's by 25% just by offering simple suggestions that you may not have thought of,interested? Keep in mind that I do this for a living and have access to all publications, TSB's on every vehicle, and my customer base is 30,000 people deep because of my knowledge base. I would love the opportunity to explain all aspects of automotive engineering, industrial engineering, industrial electricity and electronics, and simply "what works and what doesn't". Every product on the market has been tested in my shop. I also homebrew fuel additives that are substantially less expensive to make if you are also interested.

As I follow this, I would like any info you have on either of my two vehicles, the Escape or RS.

[wmjinman]

Originally Posted by rattroddrebel

Times have definitely changed, oil has changed. If you drive a car that dates before 1995 today's oil will not work because it does not have Zinc Phosphate.

This is interesting, especially since my 1985 Jimmy, my 1971 Riviera, and my 1973 Riviera, as well as my dad's 1979 Chevy van all seem to do fine with "today's oil".

Fuel additives like "sea-foam" do not publish their ingredients. I will shop around to see if I can find an MSDS on that product. I do know that if you put that "junk" in your vehicle and it is not a 1978 Chevy, well I personally have dumped over 50 gas tanks with that stuff in it because it broke loose so much crap it filled the exhaust with an oil that saturated the catalytic converter so bad all it did was smoke.

This is also interesting, since when I used the SeaFoam on my Jimmy, my Suzuki Swift, my mother's 1997 Riviera, and my fiance's 1997 Riviera, I don't remember noticing "all it did was smoke" in any of them. The good news is I just bought two more cans of SeaFoam today, so I can pay extra particular attention to the exhaust for all that smoke.

But before you "hate" on salesman, just know that I have documented proof, or you can go online and check out the product for yourselves, there is no "selling".

I'll do a lot better than read "documented proof" online - I'll prove it (or disprove it) for myself. Then that will be online, too - on this site.

As long as am a member of this site i will provide any and all information about vehicles that you would like,

OK, what's the best way to go up a hill for the best gas mileage? That's one I haven't been able to figure out yet.


Hey wmjinman, I need to know what kind of vehicle you have, 2000 GMC Jimmy 4-door, automatic trans, 4 wheel drive (and the color is white. ...I expect that's critical, too) how many miles per month you track, varies - maybe 400 to 500,a list of all of your mods, grille block, 60 psi in the tires, roof rack delete, mirrors folded back, fuse for interior lights removed area, 43.26 sq. ft. and average nominal atmospheric temperature of your location, varies between the low teens to the mid 90's. Think I read somewhere the average is around 50 products you have used, Have used or currently using? gasoline: Arco 87 octane, antifreeze: Prestone, headlights: Sylvania, belts: Gates, fiters: Fram, tires: Uniroyal Liberators, wiper blades: Ecko, toothpaste: Aim.....type of oil you have used, Pennzoil 10/30 engine size, 4.3 liter Vortec tire size, 235-75/15 and where you get your information. My own personal testing following MetroMPG's method described elsewhere on this site

I may possibly have a great deal of information for you to use, hell maybe I could increase your mpg's by 25%

With the first 5.7% being from that AmsOil P.I. fuel additive, right? Let's see how that works out & then take it from there, eh?

just by offering simple suggestions that you may not have thought of,interested?

Absolutely! ....Starting with the best way to go up a hill for maximum MPG.

Keep in mind that I do this for a living and have access to all publications, TSB's on every vehicle, and my customer base is 30,000 people deep

WOW!!! Mechanic for 10 years with 30,000 customers..... hmmm, that would be 3000 per year, or around 10 a day. Whoa, busy boy - makes me wonder why you don't own your own house by now.

I would love the opportunity to explain all aspects of automotive engineering, industrial engineering, industrial electricity and electronics,

Uh, are you sure you have the time - with your 10 customers a day and all?

and simply "what works and what doesn't".

Hey, how about that hydrogen generator!!! (from the "beaker" profile and "planned mods")

Every product on the market has been tested in my shop.

Wow, really?!?!?! Every single one? Holy smoke - Boggles the mind!!!

I also homebrew fuel additives that are substantially less expensive to make if you are also interested.

Then how come your car doesn't get any better gas mileage than it does?


Edit: "Only until recently I noticed driving under 75 mph had a considerable increase in mileage."

Comments like above, from your "beaker" fuel log notes don't exactly instill a lot of confidence in your - uh - "expertise", either. I think I've known you can drastically increase gas mileage by driving under 75 since - uh - maybe the national 55 mph speed limit in the '70s!!!

[rattroddrebel]

Hey I dont see why i am getting so much flack from you. You piss on everything I say, how about this, I will make suggestions that contribute to the benefit of everyone here, could you do that? Negating every idea i say clearly defines the fact that i need to "dumb up' some of this technical advice I give. When we explain things to each other you demonstrate how "you have heard it all". My education dictates the ability to "trump" most individuals that I encounter. my reason for this is to gain personal knowledge for myself. I do not do that to hurt anyone, but merely to help. Forget about the Amsoil claims, if all you wanted me to do was to retract any statement I made, then fine. You can just stay in your world believing what you want to believe, fine with me, go drink some more beer, and keep the redneck mentality. The other members and I will try to contribiute something to benefit each other instead of bashing everything. i have no patience in listening to some blow hard that has no scientific background other than how much he saves going to Wal mart. i never should have started battling you i am CLEARLY out of my league and have to take 20 years off of my life to compare to your intelligence. So be a jerk all you you want, crap on everything I say and go play the lottery. I will go get struck by lightning because the odds are 1000 times better. Good luck with your evolution.

[rattroddrebel]

By the way there is no "boy" here I am almost 50 years old, and have been doing independant research for over 20 years on things other than automotive products. if there is a way to save money, I will find it. I am cheap. But if a product claims to do something amazing I will test it over and over. its that simple. Unwarranted and it doesnt work are apples to oranges. This product will clean fuel injectors without harming the catalytic converter. it is a solvent. I have the documented proof, but i am testing it. I guess I should do that before I share that info. If someone said urine in your gas would help mileage i would try it for laughs.

[rattroddrebel]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

That's right, ZDDP got cut somewhat because the phosphorous poisons catalytic converters.

I think it's best not to go backwards for the oils though, SN oils have higher standards for other characteristics, if you're really worried about wear you can buy various antiwear additives separately and add them, although it's tricky business since adding too much can negatively impact the effectiveness of detergents and corrosion inhibitors and whatever.

I agree with you, my machine shop says to use an HD oil, or Rotella. It still has the good stuff in it to help.