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Old 05-12-2008, 07:20 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Welcome. I will probably display my ignorance, but is your car a two wheel drive, four wheel drive, or full time AWD? Is it automatic or is it manual? Is it possible to switch to a transmisson/differential with a lower final ratio?

Generally, if it is an Automatic, it will cost you something in mileage. If it is anything more than two wheel drive, it will generally cost you about a 20% penalty.

Both of these options will give you a hit. If you have 4 wheel, can you convert to 2 wheel and how close to 2 wheel is it. For example you might be able to take out an intermediate shaft, but you might still have a rear differential which is spinning and taking up energy. How much? How much is it worth to change? Is it worth it?

Given what you have is what you have, for now, you could do a scangauge, higher tire pressure, grill block? Beyond those, the mileage differentials become esoteric, since a 2% increase on 18 mpg is just not a big enough number to be even really measurable.

Best of success.

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Old 05-12-2008, 08:31 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Hey Steve,

Somebody should also have mentioned that any photo of a car you post will be instantly Photoshopped into an "improved" version of itself.

Note the rear wheel covers.
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Old 05-12-2008, 11:23 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoops View Post
Welcome. I will probably display my ignorance, but is your car a two wheel drive, four wheel drive, or full time AWD? Is it automatic or is it manual? Is it possible to switch to a transmisson/differential with a lower final ratio?

Generally, if it is an Automatic, it will cost you something in mileage. If it is anything more than two wheel drive, it will generally cost you about a 20% penalty.

Both of these options will give you a hit. If you have 4 wheel, can you convert to 2 wheel and how close to 2 wheel is it. For example you might be able to take out an intermediate shaft, but you might still have a rear differential which is spinning and taking up energy. How much? How much is it worth to change? Is it worth it?

Given what you have is what you have, for now, you could do a scangauge, higher tire pressure, grill block? Beyond those, the mileage differentials become esoteric, since a 2% increase on 18 mpg is just not a big enough number to be even really measurable.

Best of success.
It's a FWD AT with not a lot of options out there. I can mess with gear sets from other K motors, but I'm not interested in a huge loss.

My approach to this will be a combination of modifications that will allow better mpg as well as not take away from the looks too much.

So here's what I'm hoping will work for this specific car.

Wheel well covers
Lowering springs
Rear spoiler
Grill blockers
Belly pan(s)
K&N Filter with slightly modified air box
Weight reduction (within reason)

Steelies with disc covers and over inflated tires
OR
Light weight wheels to reduce weight, but not necessarily help with aerodynamics

The only gripe I have with a lot of the work that's being done is the fit and finish. I'm a super perfectionist a little surprised that more work hasn't gone into making the cars look a little nicer. Sure, they're beaters that get great mpg, but a little TLC goes a long way. That's why the wheel well covers I fab will be clean and painted to match with anodized black fittings. A basic hinge with dzus fittings should do it nicely.

We'll see just what I can come up with.

Steve
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Old 05-12-2008, 11:48 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k-series View Post
Rear spoiler
What did you have in mind there? A roofline extension/partial Kammback would aid aero (see AndrewJ's 5th gen Civic), but I'm not aware of anything I'd call a spoiler that'll help a 2 box vehicle. (Maybe this is just a terminology issue.)



Quote:
Steelies with disc covers and over inflated tires
OR
Light weight wheels to reduce weight, but not necessarily help with aerodynamics
I know some people can't bear the thought, but why not nice, light alloys with discs over top? That's how you know you're hardcore

Quote:
The only gripe I have with a lot of the work that's being done is the fit and finish. I'm a super perfectionist a little surprised that more work hasn't gone into making the cars look a little nicer.
There's the understatement of the year!

It could be the beater factor, or maybe it's that more people here tend to view their vehicles as transportation appliances, so don't worry so much about the spit 'n' polish.

That said, I think that nicely done mods will capture more positive attention from people sitting on the fences. I'm looking forward to what you do.
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Old 05-12-2008, 11:59 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Welcome to EM...

The K-Series has some great potential for not only FE, but emissions reductions.

We have the K24 in an '06 TSX. The engine benefits from the vehicle's low Cd and high compression. Too bad it takes costly premium fuel

I recall another member at another site that installed some serious under-vehicle aero treatments on his Element that helped.

Enjoy the site, and...

Best FE to ya

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Old 05-13-2008, 12:17 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Smile Greetings & Salutations

Glad to have you here.
Yes some (ok a lot) of the cars here are not show queens, as MetroMPG said we tend toward utilitarian. Many of our members have, however, gone to the trouble of aesthetic along with functional mods.
I would caution against the K&N filter though.
If you look it up, you will find that it does not help with MPG as they claim it will, and in order to get the air flow they actually do not filter as well as a plain paper filter.
If you buy a Metro I will send you mine for the cost of a new paper filter + shipping.
Any way, I got long winded, all I really want to say is
Welcome.
Schultz.
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Old 05-13-2008, 01:34 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
What did you have in mind there? A roofline extension/partial Kammback would aid aero (see AndrewJ's 5th gen Civic), but I'm not aware of anything I'd call a spoiler that'll help a 2 box vehicle. (Maybe this is just a terminology issue.)


It's an extension, not a spoiler, but that's what Honda calls it. I'm going to see into making it longer with more sweep on the sides and braces into the back glass. (Racing style-but not that crazy)




Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
I know some people can't bear the thought, but why not nice, light alloys with discs over top? That's how you know you're hardcore
Because it would be really difficult to find a good way to mount them unlike steelies which are made to take on a hub cap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
That said, I think that nicely done mods will capture more positive attention from people sitting on the fences. I'm looking forward to what you do.
And this is my goal with the project/article.


Quote:
Originally Posted by metroschultz View Post
I would caution against the K&N filter though.
If you look it up, you will find that it does not help with MPG as they claim it will, and in order to get the air flow they actually do not filter as well as a plain paper filter.
I'll disagree. What little debris that makes it past the filter, will be eaten by the combustion process and not cause any issues with the motor. I've actually done extensive research on this subject and have spoken with various reps for the various filter companies when I get a chance (like at SEMA and the like).

The K&N, when properly oiled and maintained will allow much more air flow with no risk to the motor. Sure, if I take a detour into a sand dune...there's a chance, but for the most part, it will work great and give the additional flow promised.


Steve
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Old 05-13-2008, 09:30 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Good discussion so far. I like the idea of doing good looking mods. No offense to anyone here, but that isn't always the norm. I too like things to look nice.

I would note that if you are driving to get better fuel economy the K&N will do absolutely nothing for you. The extra flow is only useful if your really pushing the engine at high rpms with high load. Other than those few times you do that, the stock filter is not a restriction in the least. On the other hand they are reusable which isn't a bad thing.
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Old 05-13-2008, 11:19 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I also like the idea of mods done professional! I seen some of the experimental and permanent mods on some of the vehicles here which work well, but look like hell!

I am working on doing the wheel skirt mod on my Metro, but will not even begin to start this unless I know it will not only work, but look damn good also.
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:22 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I'm going to be getting a few sheets of aluminum and all the necessary tools to shape them into something clean and finished. You never know, I might be able to market them later on.

Steve

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