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Old 07-15-2016, 02:31 PM   #81 (permalink)
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It's not so much of does it work, but of how.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
I again spoke to my brother-in-law about hydrogen and he mentioned the destabilizing effect a fraction of hydrogen can have without me leading him to it.

I wish Rusty well and I would be delighted if it indeed works. And deeply surprised.
It cannot work to bring you "double the mileage", but it has value in specific applications.

And, I don't gamble, so it's not much of a stretch to realize I can tickle the variables to gain a few percent in economy given enough control of the engine management.

What this forum needs is a definitive answer to any and all who ask, "does HHO work"? No one has done that work because the hubris and lack of understanding on this forum will not allow it.

 
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Old 07-15-2016, 02:52 PM   #82 (permalink)
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It's great you have done so much for yourself.

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Originally Posted by t vago View Post
I've got better things to do, than to inflate your low thanks count. Thanks, but no thanks.



I have BUILT an aerocap that shows better than 10% improvement in FE. I have INSTALLED aero wheel covers that show a better than 5% improvement in FE. I have INSTALLED an electrohydraulic power steering pump that shows better than 5% improvement in FE. I have INSTALLED a 6-speed manual transmission into a car that never came with one as a factory option, that shows about a 10% improvement in FE. I have INSTALLED a coolant-based air intake heater that shows better than 5% improvement in FE. All of this while holding down an unrelated job, supporting my family, raising 4 kids, and generally living life. I have DOCUMENTED fuel logs that show what I did.

I just knew your so-called "apology" was about worthless. it is you who has to put up or shut up. If you claim to be able to produce any sort of repeatable and measurable improvement in FE with your unicorn fart generator, then DO IT!
But understand this, your work is obviously good to all who have an understanding of the art. But, it is still the INTERNET! Your work has no more validity than mine. Your documented work is still unproven in the light of no one has vetted your work. Just saying.

Why don't you bring your magnum to the Green Grand Prix? I can bring mine. I'll kill you in the drags since I have an R/T that is modified. But, if you do your economy measure in Ton miles per gallon, it might be a close competition. Yes, my R/T has cylinder deactivation. And yes, I can fog in some HHO, and let's see if I can beat your max effort SXT's mileage.

Let's MEASURE your work against mine. I won't be able to hide and cheat. You can see and touch my work and manipulate it to your hearts content. Bring any instrumentation you require. I'm open to it.

Meet me at high noon .

Or go back to taking care of your family. I've already done so for mine.
 
Old 07-15-2016, 02:58 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Bring your 300SD to the Green Grand Prix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnClark View Post
Again, can we unicorn corral this ?
I'll hook up an HHO generator, and, with your permission, I can change your timing to just about eliminate smoke and gain 10% fuel economy at cruise.

Come on. I'm open to a meeting at a common ground so you can meet me face to face. You can see the work and test it to your hearts content. We'll use mass as our measure of fuel use since it is much more accurate than the volume/pump measure used by the Green Gran Prix staff. You can do ABA testing. And you can take a look at my Son's 84 300SD. It has our advanced hydrogen generator ( Non HHO ). It's quite "Black Box" at this point but you can see the basic function and compare it to your car.
 
Old 07-15-2016, 03:58 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyLugNut View Post
But understand this, your work is obviously good to all who have an understanding of the art. But, it is still the INTERNET! Your work has no more validity than mine. Your documented work is still unproven in the light of no one has vetted your work. Just saying.
Vetted? How hard can it be?

ANYONE can purchase a Toyota MR2 pump, and install it into their vehicle. They only need to fab up the mount, modify their pressure hose to fit the pump, and run the necessary power and ground.

ANYONE can install wheel covers. They just need to buy some aftermarket wheel covers, old tee shirts, and fiberglass resin.

ANYONE can build a cheapo aerocap out of styrofoam - it only requires room and temporary application of weights to hold the pieces together while the glue hardens.

ANYONE can install a coolant-based intake heater - they only need to go to the local auto parts store and buy a suitable aftermarket transmission oil cooler, hoses, clamps, and adapter fittings to hook into their existing heater piping.

Okay, so maybe installing a 6-speed is beyond the skills of most. Still not hard to verify. Come to Cedar Rapids for a few days. Surely, it's closer to you than Rochester, NY (which is near to the Green Grand Prix location). I'll show you the 6-speed installation in person.

As for your unicorn fart generation apparatus, though... Where is it? You keep talking in generalities, with no project threads or pictures or hard numbers to back up your ridiculous and unproveable claims.

There are numerous threads, detailing what I have done, that are here at EcoModder.com, Allpar.com, LXForums.com, CustomMagnums.com, and Dakota-Durango.com. I maintain fuel logs both here and on Fuelly. You can google my username and the keywords magnum or dakota or durango, and see the results pop right up.

Can you say the same for yourself, RustyLugNut? No? I didn't think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyLugNut View Post
Why don't you bring your magnum to the Green Grand Prix? I can bring mine. I'll kill you in the drags since I have an R/T that is modified. But, if you do your economy measure in Ton miles per gallon, it might be a close competition. Yes, my R/T has cylinder deactivation. And yes, I can fog in some HHO, and let's see if I can beat your max effort SXT's mileage.
What do you mean, you can fog in some HHO? I would have thought that if this crap was the wonder you keep claiming it is, you'd have it permanently installed into all of your vehicles, including this fictional modified Magnum R/T of yours. By the way, that from-the-factory MDS cylinder deactivation you mentioned isn't all that impressive. Everyone knows it cuts out at the drop of a hat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyLugNut View Post
Let's MEASURE your work against mine. I won't be able to hide and cheat. You can see and touch my work and manipulate it to your hearts content. Bring any instrumentation you require. I'm open to it.
That is, unless and until you have "mysterious job requirements" from your NDA'ed employer that somehow requires you to miss the Green Grand Prix. Yah, I'll really be holding my breath waiting for you to appear there next year.

Go back to huffing Brown's Gas. I eagerly await more of your delusional claims.
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Old 07-15-2016, 04:40 PM   #85 (permalink)
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It is like nuclear fusion/ Fission ...agreed
First you take water molecule shaped like Mickie Mouse, add 2 extra electrons (6Vs standerd 4) through electrolysis and now you have HHO formed in a straight line. .
---
One from each camp, pro/con , should atempt to explain how a ~180 f flame can ;
1 melt Tungsten Symbol: W Melting point: 6,191F (3,422C)?
2 vaporizer W at Boiling point: 10,030F (5,555C)?
My question is NOT IF the laws of physics are bendable/ brakeable ,but How and why HOH ignores them?
---

Quote:
This study found that the engine, using combustion enhancement by the electrolysis
system, produced an average of 19.1% increase in torque compared to normal diesel
operation. It was also found that an average decrease of 14% in specific fuel
consumption was achieved compared to normal diesel operation. Figure 3 shows the
effect of the electrolysis system on engine torque over the range of engine speed.
Figure 4 shows the effect of the electrolysis system on specific fuel consumption. From
these figures it can be seen that torque is greater and the fuel consumption is reduced
with the electrolysis system in operation compared to normal diesel operation. [9]
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Old 07-15-2016, 07:35 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyLugNut View Post
Not in the way the HHO scammers are portraying it.

But, it can be a tool we can use in our efforts. It has value as that.

We have several members on here that have the tuning and fabrication capability to use this tool effectively. It has value.
Who?
And why haven't they?
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Old 07-15-2016, 08:00 PM   #87 (permalink)
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What are they waiting for?
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Old 07-15-2016, 09:11 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyLugNut View Post
What a stupid remark.
You're the one saying you are releasing a proton with electricity. You're delusional. Good luck with everything on Planet Lug. There can be no sensible back and forth conversation with you because you refuse to answer direct questions with real answers. So, yer dead to me.
 
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Old 07-15-2016, 09:22 PM   #89 (permalink)
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I'd love for someone to try HHO on an Insight (and probably fail), but sadly there's no way I can make it to the Green Grand Prix. The Insight's engine is already around 40% thermodynamically efficient from the factory, which is better than many hydrocarbon power plants, and over a VERY wide rev and load range at that, suggesting the combustion chamber is very carefully designed to maximize gasoline combustion. I've read that adding ethanol negatively impacts this car more than most (though haven't experimented myself), probably because it's so carefully designed for pure gasoline. I would bet that trying to burn anything else would be suboptimal.

Why build an engine that would be better at burning something other than gasoline, when you're going to be putting gasoline in it? I could see some poorly designed engines benefiting from a small addition of hydrogen by accident...
 
Old 07-16-2016, 12:38 AM   #90 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyLugNut View Post
I'll hook up an HHO generator, and, with your permission, I can change your timing to just about eliminate smoke and gain 10% fuel economy at cruise.
A timing adjustment on a diesel can make a 10% change in fuel economy.

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