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Old 07-16-2016, 01:36 AM   #91 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=Ecky;518643]I've read that adding ethanol negatively impacts this car more than most (though haven't experimented myself), probably because it's so carefully designed for pure gasoline. I would bet that trying to burn anything else would be suboptimal.

Why build an engine that would be better at burning something other than gasoline, when you're going to be putting gasoline in it? I could see some poorly designed engines benefiting from a small addition of hydrogen by accident...[/Q[QUOTE]


Sorce..
usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2009-01-15-2010-honda-insight

Quote:
Jan 15, 2009 - Honda's 2010 Insight gasoline-electric hybrid isn't the substantial ... Regular (87- octane) gas specified.
The epa require 10%Ethanol in reg. And mid grade fuel hear in Montana premium is alowed 0%Ethanol.
In Oregon and Washington only Boat /marine, and 100 Octane is alowed 0% at a higher than premium price and Boat /marine is considered non-road use. This is what I used in my 72cc chain saw, because Ethanol absorbes watter ,and has a veary short shelf life sub 1 month (more like 2weeks) and can ruin a saw over the winter All grades are 10% aka E-90, or E-85 is of course 15% Ethanol.
By the Westcoast standards and your statement the Insight is poorly designed ... it is designed to use a fuel that is not available... at 90%of gas stations or the rong grade 87Vs 91 or 100 What is the programming set to do when the "rong octane"is used to get rid of the Ethanol my very limited knowledge the computer compensates for the out of tolerance fuel by remapping...too much =detune , too little = more detune in a different way..with the short shelf life of to days fuel the computer has to be able to compensate for " sour fuel"(1-3weeks old.)

Im not picken... just pointing out some read between the lines factoids...
Gumby Stay Flexible

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Old 07-16-2016, 02:57 AM   #92 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyLugNut View Post
It cannot work to bring you "double the mileage", but it has value in specific applications.

And, I don't gamble, so it's not much of a stretch to realize I can tickle the variables to gain a few percent in economy given enough control of the engine management.

What this forum needs is a definitive answer to any and all who ask, "does HHO work"? No one has done that work because the hubris and lack of understanding on this forum will not allow it.
What you perceive as hubris and lack of understanding is in no small part just a reaction to your postings. Maybe you can rethink the way you communicate.

Not everyone does understand the chemical reactions and the energy levels involved, and certainly nobody has a total grasp of it.

You know what you have to do to either prove or disprove that HHO has a disproportional effect on the combustion process, or at least you should.
If you need help ask for it. If you rather take the p. out of everyone do that, and enjoy the corral fence while you're at it.
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Old 07-16-2016, 10:08 AM   #93 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gumby79 View Post

Sorce..
usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2009-01-15-2010-honda-insight


The epa require 10%Ethanol in reg. And mid grade fuel hear in Montana premium is alowed 0%Ethanol.
In Oregon and Washington only Boat /marine, and 100 Octane is alowed 0% at a higher than premium price and Boat /marine is considered non-road use. This is what I used in my 72cc chain saw, because Ethanol absorbes watter ,and has a veary short shelf life sub 1 month (more like 2weeks) and can ruin a saw over the winter All grades are 10% aka E-90, or E-85 is of course 15% Ethanol.
By the Westcoast standards and your statement the Insight is poorly designed ... it is designed to use a fuel that is not available... at 90%of gas stations or the rong grade 87Vs 91 or 100 What is the programming set to do when the "rong octane"is used to get rid of the Ethanol my very limited knowledge the computer compensates for the out of tolerance fuel by remapping...too much =detune , too little = more detune in a different way..with the short shelf life of to days fuel the computer has to be able to compensate for " sour fuel"(1-3weeks old.)

Im not picken... just pointing out some read between the lines factoids...
Gumby Stay Flexible
The 2010 Insight and 2000 Insight are not even close to the same car. The only thing they share is the name.

As I recall, I didn't start seeing ethanol commonly added to gasoline until several years after the car was built, and it's kindof hard to build for a fuel that doesn't exist yet.

Typically you'd expect to lose about 3% fuel economy due to the differences in energy content with E10. I'm currently trying to find the thread I read on a poster at IC that did some A-B-A-B testing with different fuels.
 
Old 07-16-2016, 11:04 AM   #94 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyLugNut View Post
We have several members on here that have the tuning and fabrication capability to use this tool effectively. It has value.
I'm sure that the member here who keeps posting about the benefits of HHO without, you know, actually backing himself by posting hard data about his setup and the results he got with his setup, will step up to the plate and use his tuning and fabrication capability to prove that HHO works.

Can't be hard to do. He already claims to have a modified Dodge Magnum R/T with factory-installed MDS cylinder deactivation, and is willing to prove how much better his HHO setup is over my 6-speed manual transmission setup by engaging in an eco-drag race (whatever that is) with me. Surely, somebody who is capable of modifying a Dodge Magnum, is also capable of building and testing a workable HHO setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyLugNut View Post
What this forum needs is a definitive answer to any and all who ask, "does HHO work"? No one has done that work because the hubris and lack of understanding on this forum will not allow it.
Step up to the plate and provide it, then. Quit whining about "hubris and lack of understanding," build your HHO generator, and demonstrate that it works! You know, you mentioned something about those other "several members on here that have the tuning and fabrication capability." Each of them were perfectly capable of building their own eco-mods, testing them, and publishing the data here. You should do the same.

Unless you're just wanting others to do your work for you. Or maybe you just think the other "several members on here that have the tuning and fabrication capability" aren't good enough because you yourself haven't "vetted" them.
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Old 07-16-2016, 02:52 PM   #95 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecky View Post
The 2010 Insight and 2000 Insight are not even close to the same car. The only thing they share is the name.

As I recall, I didn't start seeing ethanol commonly added to gasoline until several years after the car was built, and it's kindof hard to build for a fuel that doesn't exist yet.

Typically you'd expect to lose about 3% fuel economy due to the differences in energy content with E10. I'm currently trying to find the thread I read on a poster at IC that did some A-B-A-B testing with different fuels.
FWIW, my 2011 Insight shows the same economy on hE15 (15% ethanol with a 4% water content, so 0.6% water total) compared to regular gas which over here has about 5% ethanol.
I cannot distinguish between regular and hE15 economy, not even over prolonged periods. I equalled my best commute economy several times on both.
The second gen Insight does not seem to mind ethanol.
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Old 07-17-2016, 12:30 PM   #96 (permalink)
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I've already done the work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by t vago View Post
I'm sure that the member here who keeps posting about the benefits of HHO without, you know, actually backing himself by posting hard data about his setup and the results he got with his setup, will step up to the plate and use his tuning and fabrication capability to prove that HHO works.

Can't be hard to do. He already claims to have a modified Dodge Magnum R/T with factory-installed MDS cylinder deactivation, and is willing to prove how much better his HHO setup is over my 6-speed manual transmission setup by engaging in an eco-drag race (whatever that is) with me. Surely, somebody who is capable of modifying a Dodge Magnum, is also capable of building and testing a workable HHO setup.



Step up to the plate and provide it, then. Quit whining about "hubris and lack of understanding," build your HHO generator, and demonstrate that it works! You know, you mentioned something about those other "several members on here that have the tuning and fabrication capability." Each of them were perfectly capable of building their own eco-mods, testing them, and publishing the data here. You should do the same.

Unless you're just wanting others to do your work for you. Or maybe you just think the other "several members on here that have the tuning and fabrication capability" aren't good enough because you yourself haven't "vetted" them.
And your work is still nothing more then electrons in the ether.

I'm willing to let people see and test. Will your work meet scrutiny? I'm willing to bet mine will. Real scrutiny.

If you are near the Green Grand Prix, I can make a small detour and meet up. I can do the same for T_Vago and Ivehjk since they are on the way.

And I'll race you for pinks on your magnum. Since you think I don't really have one or think I can't force the 4 cylinder mode at will your precious car must be well safe from loss?

Last edited by RustyLugNut; 07-17-2016 at 12:42 PM.. Reason: additional.
 
Old 07-17-2016, 12:38 PM   #97 (permalink)
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The use of the term "Proton" . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChazInMT View Post
You're the one saying you are releasing a proton with electricity. You're delusional. Good luck with everything on Planet Lug. There can be no sensible back and forth conversation with you because you refuse to answer direct questions with real answers. So, yer dead to me.
. . . is common in chemistry. It represents the ionic form of hydrogen even in plain water because H+ is all the same as a +charge proton.

You average glass of pure , everyday water has a bunch of them, that's why it has a pH.

And you wonder why this discussion never sees a level more than a shouting match? You represent the level of understanding on this subject.
 
Old 07-17-2016, 12:57 PM   #98 (permalink)
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I post in the taste of the venom heaped on this subject.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
What you perceive as hubris and lack of understanding is in no small part just a reaction to your postings. Maybe you can rethink the way you communicate.

Not everyone does understand the chemical reactions and the energy levels involved, and certainly nobody has a total grasp of it.

You know what you have to do to either prove or disprove that HHO has a disproportional effect on the combustion process, or at least you should.
If you need help ask for it. If you rather take the p. out of everyone do that, and enjoy the corral fence while you're at it.
Look at any post considering HHO and immediately this brings the right to personally attack the poster or anyone who would care to do a careful, honest inquiry into the subject. This leaves the thread fractured and unreadable and of far less value. I do not post vitriol on the pie tin and coroplast crowd even if I find such antics amusing. I do understand the homespun ingredient in ecomodding is a big part of the draw. But that same courtesy to dabble with HHO is not afforded.

I can already see that any carefully laid out build to inquire about the ins and outs of HHO will be hamstrung by the same attitudes that plague this and other HHO posts. It will be unreadable and useless in short order. Thus, I make the challenge to all those who think themselves knowledgeable enough to keep insisting that "HHO absolutely cannot work" and thus smash it into the coral where it immediately derives a stigma and is relegated to be trashed and pummeled into submission. I make the challenge that if you care to be part of the discussion do so with the same consideration as other subjects. If not, step up and be willing to meet and do your criticism face to face. If none of that, then just be quiet and do not post. This can keep a thread clear and useful.
 
Old 07-17-2016, 04:55 PM   #99 (permalink)
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You talking to me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyLugNut View Post
Look at any post considering HHO and immediately this brings the right to personally attack the poster or anyone who would care to do a careful, honest inquiry into the subject. This leaves the thread fractured and unreadable and of far less value. I do not post vitriol on the pie tin and coroplast crowd even if I find such antics amusing. I do understand the homespun ingredient in ecomodding is a big part of the draw. But that same courtesy to dabble with HHO is not afforded.

I can already see that any carefully laid out build to inquire about the ins and outs of HHO will be hamstrung by the same attitudes that plague this and other HHO posts. It will be unreadable and useless in short order. Thus, I make the challenge to all those who think themselves knowledgeable enough to keep insisting that "HHO absolutely cannot work" and thus smash it into the coral where it immediately derives a stigma and is relegated to be trashed and pummeled into submission. I make the challenge that if you care to be part of the discussion do so with the same consideration as other subjects. If not, step up and be willing to meet and do your criticism face to face. If none of that, then just be quiet and do not post. This can keep a thread clear and useful.
I stand by what I said earlier about your communication style being responsible for that and if that does not make sense to you then we will not agree on this matter.
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Last edited by RedDevil; 07-17-2016 at 05:22 PM..
 
Old 07-17-2016, 05:20 PM   #100 (permalink)
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I agree with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
I stand by what I said earlier about your communication style and if that does not make sense to you then we will not agree on this matter.
Realize I am not the only one using a combative style. Why are you not chastising those others who use the same style? Are you just being selective in your application of your "assessment". Yes you are. Don't you think you need to be more fair in your policing such behavior. Look at this thread. Personal attacks on my abilities are in order. I answer in kind. Don't worry about me, I am very capable of defending myself without feeling hurt. That's my advantage. I can stay on subject if you are willing.

And the subject has become proving my work. Since HHO needs proof that is "above and beyond" the normal, I have offered to show it in person to the most vociferous of the naysayers. I won't hide behind the keyboard. I really can produce. Posting on this forum will prove nothing since there will be always those that discount the digital words and pictures as being suspect.

Yes, I will produce words and pictures and people like ChazInMT will continue to be derogatory. So the offer to meet in the real world. Why not?

 
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