Go Back   EcoModder Forum > Off-Topic > The Lounge
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-01-2018, 01:25 PM   #1 (permalink)
Ecomuggler
 
Xist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 6,535

Chorizo - '00 Honda Civic HX, baby! :D
90 day: 34.82 mpg (US)

Mid-Life Crisis Fighter - '99 Honda Accord LX
90 day: 37.34 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,799
Thanked 1,184 Times in 886 Posts
I do not like the Honda FSM.

Apparently I have been saying that I was going to replace my timing belt for six months. I researched which other parts to replace at the same time, found the best places to purchase everything, quit my job and moved. I had all of the time in the world, but wasn't comfortable taking my engine apart when there are always complications.

Also, I am lazy.

Yesterday I bought the Chilton manual and then realized I had a PDF of the FSM. When I replaced the head gasket on my Forester removing the timing belt was the easy part and it is easier to work on Hondas than Subarus, so I was kind of looking forward to this.

Mostly not looking forward to it, but whatever.

I do not know if I found a Subaru FSM, but the Haynes was a ridiculous Choose Your Own Adventure of jumping from chapter to chapter. I understand, though, the book might be twice as long if they told you to write down the anti-theft code for the radio, the radio presets, and to disconnect the negative battery terminal and then the positron each and every time.

Wait. They already do.

I think there were 15 - 20 steps for the head gasket, but when I wrote down all of the steps from other sections and chapters, I believe I had eighty. I had all kinds of other complications yesterday that did not have anything to do with the FSM, but just made my day frustrating. The timing belt section is seven pages and some of them are kind of short. It only referred out for removing the alternator and alternator bracket, although the page it references for the alternator bracket does not mention the alternator bracket

So, I submit that step should be "Remove the nut and bolt from the alternator bracket and remove the alternator bracket" or simply "Remove the alternator bracket." Edit: I cannot see any reason to remove the alternator or bracket. There were a few steps like that.

I had so many other complications that it was not until I finished putting together the instructions I realized it was so simple I could have printed off the seven pages, ignored the alternator and alternator bracket references, and knocked it out.

However, after reading disassembly instructions a few times and reading the assembly instructions I happened to notice "install the cylinder head cover (see page 6-54)."

Huh.

Compare that with "Remove the cylinder head cover."

The reinstallation instructions are only a page and a half, but the removal portion is four pages, plus (see page 10-10) and (see page 11-115).

It always seems like they skip instructions.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Alternator replacement.jpg
Views:	6
Size:	45.6 KB
ID:	24301   Click image for larger version

Name:	Alternator bracket question mark.jpg
Views:	5
Size:	31.9 KB
ID:	24302   Click image for larger version

Name:	Alternator bracket.png
Views:	5
Size:	43.9 KB
ID:	24303  

Last edited by Xist; 07-21-2018 at 02:12 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 06-01-2018, 02:13 PM   #2 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 4,838

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 61.47 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,691
Thanked 1,377 Times in 941 Posts
Hang in there! There is a method for head gasket replacement that does not involve timing belt removal, but it is a little tricky. Simplify reinstallation by not putting PS & AC back, lol.
__________________


See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.

  Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 03:38 PM   #3 (permalink)
Ol' Skooler
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Tyler, TX
Posts: 972

Beater Echo - '00 Toyota Echo
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.67 mpg (US)

Hondizzle - '97 Honda Civic DX
Team Honda
90 day: 48.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 47
Thanked 131 Times in 109 Posts
I found these helpful. The first guy finds and flips cars which are beat down, and has a scrappy sort of working knowledge I find helpful. EricTheCarGuy is a former Honda/Acura dealer tech, and worked on these cars when they were new. Neither of these are perfect, but I find them helpful as additions to the FSM or other write-ups.




__________________



'97 Honda Civic DX Coupe 5MT
'00 Echo - dead 2/17
'14 Chrysler Town + Country - the better half's car
'67 Mustang Convertible - gone 1/17
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 03:54 PM   #4 (permalink)
Ecomuggler
 
Xist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 6,535

Chorizo - '00 Honda Civic HX, baby! :D
90 day: 34.82 mpg (US)

Mid-Life Crisis Fighter - '99 Honda Accord LX
90 day: 37.34 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,799
Thanked 1,184 Times in 886 Posts
California, I deleted the power steering when I replaced the alternator the first time. JCP, is that Old School Funk? I am not sure how I feel about him. I think he is how I wish Shouty Kilmer was. He shows broke people how to fix cars properly, while Shouty shows questionable shortcuts and stop leak.
Eric is good.

I have about 20 YouTube tabs open right now. I think I have Old School in there somewhere.

I am actually changing the timing belt on my Accord, while the Civic needs a head gasket, but since the Civic has low compression, I want to rebuild. Faster, stronger, better.

Nevermind. That sounds exhausting.

I also found a South Main video that I am going to watch as soon as I finish this Choose Your Own Adventure.

At ten last night my supervisor told me that I could go ahead and see some clients scheduled for 8 this morning. They live an hour away. Was I supposed to contact the parents then or early in the morning? I woke up at six, called, left voice mail, and sent a text at seven, and never heard back, so I tried to organize the timing belt project on four hours of sleep.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 04:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
Ol' Skooler
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Tyler, TX
Posts: 972

Beater Echo - '00 Toyota Echo
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.67 mpg (US)

Hondizzle - '97 Honda Civic DX
Team Honda
90 day: 48.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 47
Thanked 131 Times in 109 Posts
Yup you correctly identified Old School Funk. I found him a bit questionable at first too, so I watched several of his videos. As a car flipper he takes some shortcuts on cosmetics, but it looks like on important things such as a timing belt change, he won't do slipshod work. His rinkydink setup in that video is pretty identical to what I will have to work with when I attempt the same job on my Civic.

I'll have to go through the South Main channel again, I must have missed the one you are referring to.

Don't you ever mention Scotty NutBall Kilmer again!
__________________



'97 Honda Civic DX Coupe 5MT
'00 Echo - dead 2/17
'14 Chrysler Town + Country - the better half's car
'67 Mustang Convertible - gone 1/17
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 04:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 4,838

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 61.47 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,691
Thanked 1,377 Times in 941 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcp123 View Post
I found these helpful. The first guy finds and flips cars which are beat down, and has a scrappy sort of working knowledge I find helpful. EricTheCarGuy is a former Honda/Acura dealer tech, and worked on these cars when they were new. Neither of these are perfect, but I find them helpful as additions to the FSM or other write-ups. ...
The first of the videos is a guy I lean on as well. His techniques f doing the head gasket without removing the timing belt is the vs I referred to above. Be aware that he will also promote his religion to you. To each their own, I say...
__________________


See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.

  Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2018, 10:30 PM   #7 (permalink)
Ecomuggler
 
Xist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 6,535

Chorizo - '00 Honda Civic HX, baby! :D
90 day: 34.82 mpg (US)

Mid-Life Crisis Fighter - '99 Honda Accord LX
90 day: 37.34 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,799
Thanked 1,184 Times in 886 Posts
How to replace 1999 Accord timing belt (image heavy)









There were not too many pieces to put together, but I did not feel the need to have it say to write down the radio security code and presets four times, disconnect the alternator, prop up the oil pan, and remove a motor mount twice each.

It calls for a special wrench, although it seems that a chain wrench would work perfectly, although you may want to wrap the old timing belt around the pulley to protect it from the chain.

What do you guys think? Did I miss anything?

If everything is too small it is probably because the site shrunk everything from 3,400 x 4,400 to 464 x 600.

Should I do single column?

Reassembly is reverse of disassembly, except following torque specs and stuff. I will post it written out when I finish.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Timing belt 2_1.jpg
Views:	94
Size:	44.2 KB
ID:	24308   Click image for larger version

Name:	Timing belt 2_2.jpg
Views:	95
Size:	45.4 KB
ID:	24309   Click image for larger version

Name:	Timing belt 2_3.jpg
Views:	94
Size:	48.8 KB
ID:	24310   Click image for larger version

Name:	Timing belt 2_4.jpg
Views:	93
Size:	51.9 KB
ID:	24311   Click image for larger version

Name:	Timing belt 2_5.jpg
Views:	93
Size:	48.4 KB
ID:	24312  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Timing belt 2_6.jpg
Views:	93
Size:	35.0 KB
ID:	24313   Click image for larger version

Name:	Timing belt 2_7.jpg
Views:	93
Size:	45.6 KB
ID:	24314  
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2018, 12:41 AM   #8 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 4,838

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 61.47 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,691
Thanked 1,377 Times in 941 Posts
Looks pretty complete to me. Be extra careful about keeping the cam pulley still and level in position for first cyl compression stroke. And once the belt is off, don't turn the crank pulley either!
__________________


See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.

  Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2018, 11:59 AM   #9 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
me and my metro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 306

Economy Saturn - '02 Saturn L200
Thanks: 113
Thanked 87 Times in 69 Posts
Fsm are written for professional dealer type mechanics not do it your selfers. The Chilton type of manuals try to explain things for the first time user. Hopefully they show the special tools like the crankshaft pulley holder needed to get the crank bolt loose.
__________________
02 Saturn L200 5 speed
84 Gmc 6.5 na diesel K30 4x4
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2018, 05:22 PM   #10 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 4,838

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 61.47 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,691
Thanked 1,377 Times in 941 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by me and my metro View Post
Fsm are written for professional dealer type mechanics not do it your selfers. The Chilton type of manuals try to explain things for the first time user. Hopefully they show the special tools like the crankshaft pulley holder needed to get the crank bolt loose.
Agreed. But youtube has replaced the Chilton--atleast for a car as common as a sixth gen Civic. Video killed the Chilton star.

EDIT: I still have the Haynes I bought 17 years ago. It mostly holds maintainence records and rides in the car as emergency reference.

__________________


See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com