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Old 08-08-2013, 01:32 AM   #131 (permalink)
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I think speedo inaccuracies are the main (only?) reason even a little latitude is given... around here.

In other places people just do as they please.

P.S. Unless they have out-of-state plates. Then all latitude evaporates.

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Old 08-08-2013, 02:06 AM   #132 (permalink)
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Anyone interested in driving faster than the PSL.
...so I'm driving 55 in the right (slow) lane on a super highway (5-6 lanes in each direction) posted 45 min 65 max. Why do you even care? You are in the left (fast) lane going as fast as you want/need while passing cars in all other lanes. Middle lanes are doing 60-65. Just drive on by. You would not even notice. Or are you saying you are driving in the right lane as fast as you want and that I am in your way? To Franks point and question. There is no legal justification for your position. Why do I have to speed up? Any and all that want to pass do with no concern or effort. You can not state a legal reaon why I might be a blockage. Do you think you can change our minds for speed? Why do you care?
 
Old 08-08-2013, 03:03 AM   #133 (permalink)
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^Yeah, but outside of my state's metro area, there is nothing more than 4-lane. So when I'm plodding along in the right lane, it isn't enough- no, it simply isn't enough- that there's another lane to the left of me a.k.a. "the passing lane" that suffers no traffic coming in the opposite direction. I am putting a real crimp in everybody's style by causing people who wish to pass to move into the passing lane! And why is that such an anti-social- why, some would say illegal- thing? Because if there's a vehicle temporarily in the passing lane it is sure to inconvenience somebody who wishes to go faster yet! Oh, the humanity.

Perhaps we need about 10 lanes on each side: 45-55 on the far right; 55-65 next, and so on until Lane 10 is WOT.
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:31 AM   #134 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doviatt View Post
Anyone interested in driving faster than the PSL.
...so I'm driving 55 in the right (slow) lane on a super highway (5-6 lanes in each direction) posted 45 min 65 max. Why do you even care? You are in the left (fast) lane going as fast as you want/need while passing cars in all other lanes. Middle lanes are doing 60-65. Just drive on by. You would not even notice. Or are you saying you are driving in the right lane as fast as you want and that I am in your way? To Franks point and question. There is no legal justification for your position. Why do I have to speed up? Any and all that want to pass do with no concern or effort. You can not state a legal reaon why I might be a blockage. Do you think you can change our minds for speed? Why do you care?
I don't think anyone here would have (or anywhere) any issue with this. I think the folks that dislike driving significantly bellow the PSL (and the vast majority of traffic) have a problem when passing is problematic such as on a 1 lane each way or on a filled to capacity (but still flowing at speed) 2 lane each way (the cluster trying to pass a 55mph vehicle in a 65 causes a slow down of both lanes when you get a bunch of drivers all squeezing into already too small gaps). If passing is safe, easy and legal someone tootling along at 10mph in a 65 is a non issue.
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Old 08-08-2013, 11:48 AM   #135 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bestclimb View Post
I don't think anyone here would have (or anywhere) any issue with this.
I realize this and only posted the specific scenario so it doesn't get used unfairly in the strawman arguments.
Now if we focus specifically on the 2 lane (each way) scenario we can try to figure out where the animosity stems from.
You nailed an issue with your point about small gaps. Spacing gets ignored and proper spacing is the only way to stop the ripple effect and increase the ability to merge. Proper spacing can make your cluster scenario a non event.

Last edited by doviatt; 08-08-2013 at 11:54 AM..
 
Old 08-08-2013, 12:09 PM   #136 (permalink)
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Half of my commute is one lane in each direction with many passing opportunities, the other half is two lanes in each direction with plenty of congestion due to lots of on and off ramps and a couple of tolls.

I've been doing the same commute for 10 years, and have only been hypermiling for the last two. I still leave home at the same time and you know what? I still get to work on time. So I'm not actually causing much congestion and I can laugh at people who complain.
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:10 PM   #137 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee View Post
Regardless of my state and local situation, you are saying that the group of vehicles determines the speed limit. Nobody has defined group for me yet- 2, 3, or ? many cars?- and does said group get to go as fast as they want i.e. 110 mph and if so what statute allows that and if not what statute or practice defines what the speed limit is since the roadside speed limit signs are clearly false and non-binding?
It's a de facto grey area in [lack of effective] traffic enforcement. A driving loophole, if you will. Can we just leave it at that?

Yes, driving quickly is technically illegal, and yes, people get in such a habit that they believe it to be the only way to drive. Sound familiar? This sort of thing happens nearly everywhere, in all aspects of life. People get set in their corner-cutting ways and forget that others prefer to do things properly.

This does not mean that this behavior is proper or legal; it only means that the speeders (in this example) percieve an inconvenience due to those who do not also adhere to their driving style. And, after all, perception drives most of our culture.
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Old 08-08-2013, 02:47 PM   #138 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Frank Lee


Quote:
I'm still interested in the legal theory that allows me to go whatever speed I want as long as I have accomplices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
It is obviously already in practice. Half of the cars on the highway drive faster than 75 mph in a 65 zone. If only 1 car in 100 were driving 75, 76 mph would get you a ticket every time but it doesn't.
It's technically not legal under the described circumstance. But it IS grounds to raise the speed limit.

"Traffic engineers maintain that speed limits should be established according to the 85th percentile of free flowing traffic. This means the limit should be set at a level at or under which 85 percent of people are driving. Numerous studies have shown that the 85th percentile is the safest possible level at which to set a speed limit." Read the entire explanation - "This means the limit should be set at a level at or under which 85 percent of people are driving. Numerous studies have shown that the 85th percentile is the safest possible level at which to set a speed limit."

Read the entire explanation of how speed limits are set - CLICK HERE

The police in some states realize this and they do not want their summonses questioned or contested under the 85th percentile rule. It's easier to allow the first 10 MPH over the limit rather than have the speed limit itself contested or raised - and there is valid reason to raise it if 85% of the people are driving faster than the posted limit.
 
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Old 08-08-2013, 02:56 PM   #139 (permalink)
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There is no reasonable expectation to exceed the speed limit. Even if it is a significant % of drivers on the road, even if that is how it is enforced. If they desire to go faster then the PSL onus to "get through" traffic is entirely on them. Having driven on both sides of coin I can see that any frustration I felt at drivers that were "in my way" was entirely misplaced. To defend that frustration by saying that they should get out of the way is asinine. If the speed limit is too low take it to the legislature.

I absolutely have a right to go 55 in a 65, just as someone has a right to do 65 in a 65. Both of us have a reasonable expectation to travel at our selected speeds as both are legal. Again if conditions provide opportunity to pass then it is a non issue. If conditions are not conducive to letting everyone do their own thing a little patients and courtesy on publicly owned and used infrastructure is conducive to smooth traffic flow. Which may mean that some people are going faster than they would prefer and some are going slower. Is the default condition of the roads in America packed to capacity all the time? or is stalwartly sticking to 55 really only problematic for a couple hours each day?

In AK there is a law that if you are driving below the PSL and 5 or more cars are following, you are required to use a pull out to let them pass. So your options are to pull out and let traffic flow, or speed up to the PSL to make the law no longer applicable. It does not mean that I don't have a right to cruse at some speed lower than the PSL it means that I have to be aware of my presence in the traffic flow. If others seem oblivious it does not negate my responsibility.
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Old 08-08-2013, 03:12 PM   #140 (permalink)
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Quote:
"Traffic engineers maintain that speed limits should be established according to the 85th percentile of free flowing traffic. This means the limit should be set at a level at or under which 85 percent of people are driving. Numerous studies have shown that the 85th percentile is the safest possible level at which to set a speed limit." Read the entire explanation - "This means the limit should be set at a level at or under which 85 percent of people are driving. Numerous studies have shown that the 85th percentile is the safest possible level at which to set a speed limit."
Tell me about it- I posted it here:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post382629

However, "85th" isn't gospel or on one of the Ten Commandments tablets:
Quote:
This means the limit should be set at a level at or under which 85 percent of people are driving.
There are factors other than safety that are figured in too.

Quote:
The police in some states...
- as noted, in my state you will be cited at quite a bit less than 10 over. Regardless, I don't think anybody behind me will pony up the dough for my ticket should I speed up enough to appease them (if that is even possible). That being the case, I'm not going to expose myself to fines and fees and cavity searches and time wasted at roadside to appease those who don't have a stake in my finances. I don't let strangers handle my luggage at airports before it's checked in either.

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