MG Midget + Geo Metro 3cyl = MGeo

[nimblemotors]

The 1.0L geo engine is designed to be transverse FWD and so the radiator hoses do not come to the front of the engine like a RWD car. In fact, the come out the BACK of the engine. What I've done to fix it is take the water pump and remove the internals, so the pump housing is now just a passage that a hose can connect right out to the front of the engine.




For the back of the motor, I used a u-bend in steel and made a flange to connect it to the block. I removed the thermostat housing and the coupling that the temp sensors plug into. This frees up a lot of space in the back of the engine. The distributor is still there, but if/when I convert it to a COP ignition, the length of the motor will be pretty short (like a 3-cyl should be).

I have decided that I'm not going to do the hybrid setup to make it simpler and less complicated so I can finish this project. So I will be putting in a regular starter for the engine. However, my plan is to remove the alternator and use an external electric water pump, so effectively I get a little bit of plug-in hybrid effect and can use battery power to get more MPG.

I'm wondering how it is best to set this up. There isn't a lot of external electric water pumps that I know of, particularly ones that can handle 220F water temps. I'm also considering what to do about a thermostat and water temp controls. My thoughts are to use a sump pump and put it inside an insulated container that will maintain hot water to warm up the engine quickly. In fact I want to go further, and create an electric water heater that will heat up the water with the pump circulating it BEFORE the engine starts up, so there will not be a cold-start period. The water is circulated through the intake manifold to heat it up to improve MPG in this engine.
So I'm thinking I need a water heater somewhere. Putting some coils in the insulated box with the pump seems appropriate, but I'm wondering if I might just run current through the entire radiator itself to heat the water!!??
Your opinions and thoughts appreciated.
Jack

[Frank Lee]

Don't get all Rube Goldberg; just put a core plug heater in there and the thermosiphoning will take care of the rest.

[nimblemotors]

It occurred to me last night that I might be able to take the stock water pump and flip the impeller so it pumps out the front instead of the back,
and then I can put an electric motor on the back of the pump.

[cleanspeed1]

Or, you can use one of these: Meziere Enterprises and are remote mount.

They have a few models that flow up to 55 gph.

Think it might be enough for the Metro motor?

[nimblemotors]

The effort/payoff ratio was just too high for the custom waterpump and water flow engineering, so I've just created u-turn pipes for the stock pump and thermostat housing, and then just keep the alternator and the belt drive.
If I end up doing the hybrid motor setup, then it is worth the effort for the rest.

I'm now looking at fabricating the rear wheel wells, and it got me thinking, there must be some issues with wheels turning so fast regarding the flow of air around the tires. In the front of the tires there is not much I can do, but in the back there is room to do something, just WHAT I don't know, should I leave a wide open space, or try to tuck it in close to the tire?? Or some other clever airflow engineering?

[TedV]

Davies Craig has plenty of electric water pump options. Not exactly cheap tho. Davies Craig There are a few water heater options for diesels. One for a VW diesel should fit your motor size well. Core plug, some splice into a water hose. no easy links on those, sorry

[some_other_dave]

In the 1st-gen Insight, Honda put a radius on the aft part of the wheel well. This may have given the air in the fender an easier way out. I've seen it on a few other cars that were styled as being quite aerodynamic.

A lot of the sports-racers from the 70s (e.g., Porsche 917K, Ferrari 512) had the fender cut away aft of the rear wheels. Not sure if it was more for down-force or if it helped drag.

Insight:



917:



The 917 reference might be hard to pull off, but might be cool if you integrate it well.

-soD

[nimblemotors]

I'm wondering about the inside of the wheel well, the outside body will get an Insight style covering. The rear wheels have no brakes so it has no constraints on air flow, it could spin in a vaccum if that were possible.

I've read through some technical papers, but nothing jumps out.
If there is water on the road, then you want to shed it off the tires asap, rather than let it come up inside the wheel well, so that argues for a tight inner fender well. Guess I won't worry about it. Got enough other stuff.

Doing the clutch slave cylinder now.
I got a GM hydraulic throw-out bearing, but it is a little too big unfortunately, so I'm rigging a normal external slave cylinder.

[COcyclist]

Originally Posted by some_other_dave

A lot of the sports-racers from the 70s (e.g., Porsche 917K, Ferrari 512) had the fender cut away aft of the rear wheels. Not sure if it was more for down-force or if it helped drag.

917:

FYI the 917 was designed for downforce not low drag. Jack discusses this in his blog.

MAX Update No. 90: Why ' Real Old' Beats ' Old'

Nimble, I remember reading somewhere that in general, smaller wheel houses are more aerodymanic/low drag, so you are on the right track. I brought my belly pan as close as was reasonable to the rear wheels and extended the fenderliner down to seal out turbulence, slush and snow.

[IMG]http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-cocyclist-albums-belly-pan-install-picture2646-img-0141.html[IMG]

[guudasitgets]

Originally Posted by nimblemotors

This container was for industrial hazardous solvent use, not a milk carton.
No existing tank was this size or shape and if you look, there is no room for anything but this exact size, which already is quite small.
If you look at race tanks, they are not designed for in-tank EFI pumps,
nor for filler tubes, so they just don't work here.

No offence but I'm very involved in road racing and there are plenty of fuel cells in race cars out there WITH EFI pumps in them and filler tubes. The stuff is being used so maybe YOU haven't found them but they are out there. And a lot of them in Midgets & Sprites too.