OBII Smarter than us?

[minispeed]

The link you keep posting has a great punch line, it's what the Feds are keeping out of the US and Canada but is available to buyers in Europe.... well the ones who are willing to shell out $144,000 US for it!!! Wonder what the time is to recoup the fuel savings cost? Oh and only 250 of them.

VW XL1 Price & Production Details

Here's a nice old car and driver article about why we don't get a lot of diesels. Diesel's Last Stand?

Note that it's from 2004 so evidently the standards have gotten tighter since then. US NOX 0.05g/mi, EU 0.4g/mi. It's these same rules that allow large companies like GM to put an "easter egg" program on some engines that are certified to both standards and let you use lean burn. It's been said a few times, nothing beats the original insight (I just picked one up and have a 72mpg and an 82mpg tank) and NOX rules pushed that technology out.

I have a friend who went to work in inner China where they have NOX pollution problems and heard about what unchecked NOX smog can be like, I've been into Toronto during smog warning days and I live in a steel city (Hamilton). I'm very glad that our governments restrict the NOX to the point that they do and many of the EU politicians have been calling on re thinking their diesel tax incentives and moving towards more gas cars. Also I looked for a link but couldn't find it, I have heard that in a few years the EU NOX limits will be as strict as US EPA ones. So EVERY EU diesel on sale at that time should in theory pass if they chose to submit to testing.

Originally Posted by racprops

Look back at history, like the Chrysler Turbine Car, noted was how it would run on any burnable fuel BUT it main problem was it lack of service needed and its projected million miles life.

In a couple of the articles they even said "We honor the high octain gas and the ICE."

And how about the Saturn Electric Car, same problem, lack of parts and service needs.

Consider our printers many have ought on that they nearly give the printer away so they can make money selling us ink.

Again I will point out this article to new comers:

The Silver Bear Cafe

Read it and do some research on all of this.

[racprops]

Pioneering construction techniques, an advanced plug-in hybrid drivetrain and innovative packaging all play a part in allowing the XL1 to return 313 mpg on the combined cycle while emitting 24 g/km of CO2 to set a new benchmark for vehicle efficiency.

So what is wrong with 313MPG??

It is a beginning..

As for the other stuff I cannot say...

Funny as Chevy is now putting out a Diesel car with 49MPG for the USA.

So whom has old data??

Rich

[minispeed]

If you're trying to say my point is invalid because Chev now sells a diesel and the article mentoined they said they wouldn't then you are missing the point. It doesn't change the fact that in the mid part of the last decade the auto makers had to meet much higher standards to sell deisel in the US.

By that same logic your point about the Saturn electic car being pulled for lack of parts and service needs is now out dated since GM sells the volt that doesn't have the same service and parts needs as gas cars.

I would say there's a very good chance that the only reason that Chev is putting out a diesel car in the US is because they have to make an engine that satisfies the up coming EU standard. So you can thank the EU governments and the EU citizens putting their dollars behind diesel for that.

Originally Posted by racprops

Look back at history, like the Chrysler Turbine Car, noted was how it would run on any burnable fuel BUT it main problem was it lack of service needed and its projected million miles life.

In a couple of the articles they even said "We honor the high octain gas and the ICE."

And how about the Saturn Electric Car, same problem, lack of parts and service needs.

Consider our printers many have ought on that they nearly give the printer away so they can make money selling us ink.

Again I will point out this article to new comers:

The Silver Bear Cafe

Read it and do some research on all of this.

Originally Posted by racprops

Pioneering construction techniques, an advanced plug-in hybrid drivetrain and innovative packaging all play a part in allowing the XL1 to return 313 mpg on the combined cycle while emitting 24 g/km of CO2 to set a new benchmark for vehicle efficiency.

So what is wrong with 313MPG??

It is a beginning..

As for the other stuff I cannot say...

Funny as Chevy is now putting out a Diesel car with 49MPG for the USA.

So whom has old data??

Rich

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by shovel

This is the funniest bunch of chatter I've read so far today

Let's talk more about how automakers could totally make 200mpg, sellable cars but choose not to.

Who says its not sellable, if I could legally drive a lay down 1 seater, heck throw solar on it and make it weigh under 500lbs, I would drive the streamliner to work.

We would need attitude changes and structural/legal changes to our road system to make them mainstream but what the heck?

The HSV freeway could get 100mpg and using a briggs 12hp v-twin.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by minispeed

The link you keep posting has a great punch line, it's what the Feds are keeping out of the US and Canada but is available to buyers in Europe.... well the ones who are willing to shell out $144,000 US for it!!! Wonder what the time is to recoup the fuel savings cost? Oh and only 250 of them.

An XL1 like vehicle would not need to cost $144k, there are several XL2s on this site that cost under $5k.

[minispeed]

I totally agree, I think the only reason VW is building it at that price is because they promised to build it to prove that they could. They have realized that much like the original insight not enough people will pay a premium to drive a small slow fuel economy super car to make it at a profit. They do not wish to make it at a loss so they figure they will make a limited run so that no one can say they couldn't/didn't do what they said they could/would.

Again that part is just my theory, but it is NOT a punch line to end why we are not allowed or given the same cars as europe. With that price tag I'm pretty sure they could make it pass the US EPA tests.

Originally Posted by rmay635703

An XL1 like vehicle would not need to cost $144k, there are several XL2s on this site that cost under $5k.

[racprops]

Originally Posted by minispeed

If you're trying to say my point is invalid because Chev now sells a diesel and the article mentoined they said they wouldn't then you are missing the point. It doesn't change the fact that in the mid part of the last decade the auto makers had to meet much higher standards to sell deisel in the US.

And if they wanted to they could...

By that same logic your point about the Saturn electic car being pulled for lack of parts and service needs is now out dated since GM sells the volt that doesn't have the same service and parts needs as gas cars.

They tried to kill the electric car but after a few years gave in and relished they were losing and had better get on the band wagon, watch "The Revenge of the Electric Car"


I would say there's a very good chance that the only reason that Chev is putting out a diesel car in the US is because they have to make an engine that satisfies the up coming EU standard. So you can thank the EU governments and the EU citizens putting their dollars behind diesel for that.

And it gets fair MPG as well.

[minispeed]

Originally Posted by racprops

Originally Posted by minispeed
If you're trying to say my point is invalid because Chev now sells a diesel and the article mentoined they said they wouldn't then you are missing the point. It doesn't change the fact that in the mid part of the last decade the auto makers had to meet much higher standards to sell deisel in the US.

And if they wanted to they could...

And if the american public was willing to pay the premium on the car to re coup the cost of the development then maybe the auto makers would want to, but the public constantly shows that things like quiet, style, size and high reving power matter more to them and that's where they spend their money.

The only reason the europeans spend that kind of cost building and refining diesel is because the deep tax cuts have given the public the incentive to buy diesel. If there had not been that incentive then the diesel would have never been developed to the point where people in the EU now choose to buy diesel even on sporty luxury sedans.

And some of the tax cuts may come to an end...

French Minister Backs Diesel Tax Gain to Cut Dangerous Pollution - Bloomberg

And their cities are complaining about the pollution

Article >

[Frank Lee]

Rode in a Cruze diesel yesterday. At $26,000, I'd say it's a rip-off. But then, I think all new cars are rip-offs. Sticker was 46 mpg hwy but the salesman said it could achieve 56 hwy without being babied. Then again, when I arrived there was a ginormous diesel pickup idling in front of the stealership and after the entire sales schpiel for that Cruze, including the test drive, it was still there idling. The salesman said Oh, it doesn't cost anything to idle a diesel- it costs more to shut it down then start it up. But during the ride he said the new diesels are not like the old ones in that they start right up and run well in extreme cold. Erm... right, nothing like completely contradicting yourself.

I also made the mistake of wandering into a Ford salesroom recently. The salesguy noticed I came in my F150 so we wandered over to a new F150, where he proceeded to gush about the free introductory period for Syrius radio and the bluetooth connectivity feature. I remarked that, at 6'4" I could barely reach over the box sides and what's up with that? He said well that's why the tailgates have these fancy built-in ladders now. You know what, they could build in a GD escalator for all I care, I still can't walk up to the truck and grab stuff outta the box.

The whole experience made me want to puke my guts out on the showroom floor.

[minispeed]

Originally Posted by racprops

Originally Posted by minispeed
If you're trying to say my point is invalid because Chev now sells a diesel and the article mentoined they said they wouldn't then you are missing the point. It doesn't change the fact that in the mid part of the last decade the auto makers had to meet much higher standards to sell deisel in the US.

And if they wanted to they could...

And if the american public was willing to pay the premium on the car to re coup the cost of the development then maybe the auto makers would want to, but the public constantly shows that things like quiet, style, size and high reving power matter more to them and that's where they spend their money.

The only reason the europeans spend that kind of cost building and refining diesel is because the deep tax cuts have given the public the incentive to buy diesel. If there had not been that incentive then the diesel would have never been developed to the point where people in the EU now choose to buy diesel even on sporty luxury sedans.

And some of the tax cuts may come to an end...

French Minister Backs Diesel Tax Gain to Cut Dangerous Pollution - Bloomberg

And their cities are complaining about the pollution

Article >