OBII Smarter than us?

[oil pan 4]

If the oil companies are going to suppress any one they would go here:
EcoModder Fleet list - EcoModder.com
And dispatch thugs to the guys getting 70-80 mpg in gasoline cars, 80-100 mpg in diesel cars, and the 3/4ton truck that gets 55 mpg.
The MPG evidence for these vehicles is very well documented, you could track IP address so these people shouldn't be impossible to find.
Maybe we should PM some of these members and ask if they ever have vans parked out side their house.

[pgfpro]

Originally Posted by racprops

Just when I was sure I was NOT coming back...

Well I do not have money for another car...if I did I would not be tiring to start a new company...

AND there is no such a car as far as I know of...but I am curious as to what car your talking about.

My experience with OBDII is they are locked up tighter than Fort Knox.

OR did you mean a OBDI system and if so I already have a EPROM Emulator and a laptop and software for that.

Problem is 80% of cars are now OBDII cars, so as a business learning how to do OBDI is a waste of time.

And it looks like to tune OBDII PCMs is kind of like service the early modular TVs' ever model year it took a whole service kit running around $500.00 per...

The devices to get into OBDII PCMs look like they run the same deal around $350.00 per make and model and then $125.00 for the license again per each car and I have not got the price for the software and all the learning/training time getting into it.

I was hoping to find guys already set up and doing them.

Rich

The one I would recommend for the money is ECMLink. I'm not associated with them in anyway just to be clear that i'm not trying to sell you anything.

ECMLink has OBDI EPROM socketed systems for DSM's like the one I'm using.


ECMLink also has OBDII for DSM's 1995 -1999 Talons Eclipse etc.
Link page.
ECMTuning, Inc.

Hondata K Pro for Honda cars all the way up to 2002 to 2004 is another one but a lot more money.

I would go with the ECMLink myself if you want to start out. You can also find them used already socketed for around $350.00. I just found a 1997 Talon for a friend that we picked up for $2200.00 and sold him one of my old OBDII ECMLink speed density's ECU's I had laying around for $450.00. So hes into the whole car with OBDII tuning ability's for less then $3000.00.

[racprops]

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

I build HHO systems that flat out work. Within reason.

And I have had no problems with "suppression".

I have a business with a BBB listing as well as a phone number. I have my name and engineering license on various white papers and trade journals. And yet, no oil company "goons" have come to take me and my knowledge away. I have had them contact me for process subsystems and for my knowledge in toxic compound remediation. If you can help them make a buck, they will contact you. Oil companies WANT greater fuel economy because it extends their business base.

How does that work?? IF I did invent a system that gave 100MPG how would that make them happy?? It would mean 1/4 the amount of gas sold.

How about how they and car makers OWN 90% of the paterns done on MPG research??

What I have had, is a stream of investors and "partners" that "want in" if I can make a doodad that will "double a cars fuel mileage" with a single stroke. I show them the required monies needed to do a proper integrated system that meets both governmental requirements as well as customer satisfaction requirements but "only" produces 15% fuel economy advantage in the EPA FTP 75 drive cycle. They tell me I obviously don't know what I'm doing since I don't know how to double a cars fuel economy.

People such as you, racerops, damage the credible work efforts of the aforementioned FVT, Transonic and others - people who have real engineering efforts building real science based products. The hurdle to bring such systems to market is so huge, that most will fail. Not because of "suppression" but because that is the way the market works.

Again that does not compute, when I was with Dutchman I had a protental deal with a few sub contractors that could have made me millions and in that 5 months we had people running into the hundreds, both sales and dealers.
IF only Dutchman had spend a little more on making a good product and not told so many whoppers...and tried to have too many people making too much markup so the retail price was too high...



The internet has allowed us wonderful connectivity to a wealth of information. It also allows us to derive an "internet education" that can be dangerous as information without the filter of foreknowledge results in errors. It also allows errors to rapidly propagate without the strictures of editing and proper peer review. It results in people ignoring extensive education, experience and criticism and simply saying "that's all nice and all . . . but look at this YouTube video!"

You have not presented "Proof". You have produced anecdotal evidence. If you cannot discern the difference, you will have great problems in argument here. It is all I can find...and there seems only to be two schools, the so call crackpots saying these things can work and the Hard Core saying the first group are crackpots I can already see that you have. I reside on the Ecomodder forums even though I disagree with many about things like HHO and vapor carbs. Many are adamant in their belief that they cannot work at all. But, to their credit, they have this section ( the unicorn coral ) that at least allows discussion. My goal is to develop a rolling testbed I can drive to the various members in the North American region and have them test it to their satisfaction. Will it "double your mileage"? No. Will it be "marketable"? Most likely not. But, it will expand our knowledge base which is the goal of this forum. How long will it take? I don't know. I still have to earn my daily bread like most people.

And it is obvious you have not extensively read through the forum content. Many people DO double their mileage on a regular basis with reasonable driving and aerodynamic modifications as well as good vehicle choices.

I will admit it is hard to tell the truth from the lies.

And when I get a knee jerk reaction like I got here and shoved into the loony bin as this thread was and ONLY one reasonable voice (yours) that does not totally condemn what I am TRYING to learn, well can you blame me??

Again I reached out to you but between your NDA and consulting fees I gave up hoping to talk with you.

HHO has been around for decades, and keep having people totally sure it can work.

Gas Vapor also has been around from the very beginning, I read some where the very first motor ran off the vapor take off a sock soaked in gasoline...but metering it was impossible to carbs were born...

When I read things like this:

Not Taught In Schools! Supressed Information On Free Energy & AntiGravity!

And other things like a book called "Suppressed Inventions and other Discoveries" it does become very hard to believe the hard core science.

I personally have see the Mighty Smithsonian miss represent items that I can prove are wrong...

I have talked with real people and had them tell their stories of suppression...

So the fact you have not had any is only proof that you have not had any...

Perhaps it is that your not trying to sell them only show them..and show that they do not work as some clam and that they are not cost effective, so in that way your really working in their best interest.

Your only paranoid if they are NOT after you.

Thanks for you honesty, it is nice to know HHO and Vapor can work.

Rich

[racprops]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

If the oil companies are going to suppress any one they would go here:
EcoModder Fleet list - EcoModder.com
And dispatch thugs to the guys getting 70-80 mpg in gasoline cars, 80-100 mpg in diesel cars, and the 3/4ton truck that gets 55 mpg.
The MPG evidence for these vehicles is very well documented, you could track IP address so these people shouldn't be impossible to find.
Maybe we should PM some of these members and ask if they ever have vans parked out side their house.

GOOD GOD how silly, they are not after people that clam or even do get good MPG.

They are going after people SELLING devices to other people to get great MPG, to stop hundreds of people getting better MPG.

How many of you do it?? And at what price...your a drop in a bucket, but a working device could be sold in the thousands nay hundreds of thousands, that is what they are suppressing.

Rich

[racprops]

Originally Posted by pgfpro

The one I would recommend for the money is ECMLink. I'm not associated with them in anyway just to be clear that i'm not trying to sell you anything.

ECMLink has OBDI EPROM socketed systems for DSM's like the one I'm using.


ECMLink also has OBDII for DSM's 1995 -1999 Talons Eclipse etc.
Link page.
ECMTuning, Inc.

Hondata K Pro for Honda cars all the way up to 2002 to 2004 is another one but a lot more money.

I would go with the ECMLink myself if you want to start out. You can also find them used already socketed for around $350.00. I just found a 1997 Talon for a friend that we picked up for $2200.00 and sold him one of my old OBDII ECMLink speed density's ECU's I had laying around for $450.00. So hes into the whole car with OBDII tuning ability's for less then $3000.00.

Hot darn...(I censored that) that is a possible answer and a big help.

I will be researching them.

OK Checked them out and they only seem to do GM and Mitsu PCMs...

Oh well. I need the same service for OBDII Fords

A thousand THANKS. Anyway.

Rich

[pgfpro]

One other thing I would like to address is mpg ratings for cars of the past and today.

My car, a 1991 Eagle Talon has a combine EPA rating of 18 mpg. The rating for my car is very deflated because of it being a old factory high performance turbo car.

I have looked at the factory fuel maps and ignition maps of my car and they are very conservative when it comes HP/FE efficiency. The reason they did this is to protect the engine from knock, knowing the consumer would be idiots and run regular fuel sometimes and would run the crap out of the car.

The manufacturer ran very low ignition timing numbers and very rich a/F ratios with a very low compression engine to offset the negligence of the consumer.
So the manufacturer built a very inefficient tuned engine to offset this.

So on my car I have a very inflated EPA rating of 137%. I know for fact based on another friends Talon with ECMLink you can improve from a stock EPA 18 mpg combine to 27 mpg combine just from modifying the maps in the ECU.

On my build I run stock modified pistons by me. I'm always looking for Talons/Eclipse that have not been abused to keep my piston inventory up. When I do find a grandma car engine that was driven normal the piston have the second compression ring and some times the top gummed up so bad that there had to major blow by. This proves to me that my analogy above^^^ the factory ran at a very low efficient mapped engine.

Now the newer you get the harder it will be to find low efficient cars like mine. The standards have become much more efficient since 1991.

The new STI's and EVO's etc. have increased their efficiency by running a better knock retard system compared to the ones of my cars era.

So really my % increase over factory EPA should be around 58% not 137%

Anyway some food for thought.

[doviatt]

Originally Posted by racprops

GOOD GOD how silly, they are not after people that clam or even do get good MPG.

They are going after people SELLING devices to other people to get great MPG, to stop hundreds of people getting better MPG.

How many of you do it?? And at what price...your a drop in a bucket, but a working device could be sold in the thousands nay hundreds of thousands, that is what they are suppressing.

Rich

You confuse me. You are so certain of this conspiracy yet you are willing to "gamble and bet" on your ability to pull this one off. What makes you think you can get away with and sell such an item if NOBODY else can?

[pgfpro]

Originally Posted by racprops

Hot darn...(I censored that) that is a possible answer and a big help.

I will be researching them.

OK Checked them out and they only seem to do GM and Mitsu PCMs...

Oh well. I need the same service for OBDII Fords

A thousand THANKS. Anyway.

Rich

Have you looked at Moates and TunerPro for fords
Link Ford Overview (READ ME) « Moates Support

[racprops]

Originally Posted by pgfpro

One other thing I would like to address is mpg ratings for cars of the past and today.

My car, a 1991 Eagle Talon has a combine EPA rating of 18 mpg. The rating for my car is very deflated because of it being a old factory high performance turbo car.

I have looked at the factory fuel maps and ignition maps of my car and they are very conservative when it comes HP/FE efficiency. The reason they did this is to protect the engine from knock, knowing the consumer would be idiots and run regular fuel sometimes and would run the crap out of the car.

The manufacturer ran very low ignition timing numbers and very rich a/F ratios with a very low compression engine to offset the negligence of the consumer.
So the manufacturer built a very inefficient tuned engine to offset this.

So on my car I have a very inflated EPA rating of 137%. I know for fact based on another friends Talon with ECMLink you can improve from a stock EPA 18 mpg combine to 27 mpg combine just from modifying the maps in the ECU.

On my build I run stock modified pistons by me. I'm always looking for Talons/Eclipse that have not been abused to keep my piston inventory up. When I do find a grandma car engine that was driven normal the piston have the second compression ring and some times the top gummed up so bad that there had to major blow by. This proves to me that my analogy above^^^ the factory ran at a very low efficient mapped engine.

Now the newer you get the harder it will be to find low efficient cars like mine. The standards have become much more efficient since 1991.

The new STI's and EVO's etc. have increased their efficiency by running a better knock retard system compared to the ones of my cars era.

So really my % increase over factory EPA should be around 58% not 137%

Anyway some food for thought.

And again many thinks.

You kind of prove the car makers are doing things that can be redone to improve performance and MPG.

And you give a darn good reason for it, they had to build for the Granny as well as for the Hot Rodder...

And I am aware of the improved knock sensor and timing retarding systems.

It was one of the issue we worried about with HHO.

Rich

[racprops]

Originally Posted by doviatt

You confuse me. You are so certain of this conspiracy yet you are willing to "gamble and bet" on your ability to pull this one off. What makes you think you can get away with and sell such an item if NOBODY else can?

Believe me that is a real concern.

And who said no one can??

From what I understand there are hundreds, thousands doing it right now.

Check eBay under HHO.

And sadly I fear many are scams.

I want to make a living, not a killing, I scaled down my hopes.

BUT I want to do it honestly with a real working product that does what I clam it does and at a price a normal person can afford.

Rich