Open Source Hybrid/Hybrid Electric Car Project

[divedaddy03]

Originally Posted by drmiller100

the laws for ENCLOSED motorcycles vary state to state somewhat.

For instance, in Idaho, Washington, California and many other states you do not need a motorcycle endorsement if you are driving an enclosed 3 wheeled motorcycle which has a car style seat and a steering wheel.

As I read the Minnesota laws, they are really confusing, but it SEEMS like to drive a 3 wheeled motorcycle you need to go pass the written test, but not the driving test. DO NOT TAKE MY WORD FOR THIS as the laws are really poorly written in Minnesota in this case.

It is clearly obvious a 3 wheeled enclosed motorcycle like we are talking is legal everywhere in North America. There are some questions about endorsements, whether kids under the age of 18 must wear helmets, but the rest is clear.

It took me a LOT of work to build my first trike. The second one will be 1/10th the work.

and easier after that.

the engine and wiring is the easy part. the hard part was getting the body right and the frame designed to work with the honda donor car.

Doug,

Thank you for all of your time/effort in bringing this topic to clarity on the thread, obviously you've done your homework on this issue.

Lets all pitch in and work together to make this bigger than only one person can do on their own.

Wayne
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[zoltanbod]

Just so you know the Zoleco project will first be offering the car in kit form as the development of a DOT street turn key car will require a much larger funding base.The project is still in search of business partners to complete the prototype.
It needs massive exposure to find the correct people to partner with,that said I have entered the car in the Royal Purple show your ride at SEMA contest,it is open to internet voters to pick the 10 most popular cars from the 52 entered so that the judges can then pick the 2 finalists to be shown @ SEMA...If the people on ecomodder who believe in my project could assist me with some votes it would be a great help!
Here is the link to the entries,just scroll down to your pick and click to votehttp://apps.facebook.com/contestshq/contests/242479/voteable_entries

[divedaddy03]

Originally Posted by zoltanbod

Just so you know the Zoleco project will first be offering the car in kit form as the development of a DOT street turn key car will require a much larger funding base.The project is still in search of business partners to complete the prototype.
It needs massive exposure to find the correct people to partner with,that said I have entered the car in the Royal Purple show your ride at SEMA contest,it is open to internet voters to pick the 10 most popular cars from the 52 entered so that the judges can then pick the 2 finalists to be shown @ SEMA...If the people on ecomodder who believe in my project could assist me with some votes it would be a great help!
Here is the link to the entries,just scroll down to your pick and click to votehttp://apps.facebook.com/contestshq/contests/242479/voteable_entries

I went to the site and voted!

I really like what you are doing, some things from a marketing stand-point though I think could be better? Just being a critic...

I think that you're really onto something with the size/shape combo that you are building...large enough for 4 men is really nice yet still focusing heavily on areo.

Wayne
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[divedaddy03]

Defining the Non-For-Profit (HELP Needed!)

- The size and scope of the project still needs to be defined:
---- Do we build it to be certified as a car, motorcycle, or custom experimental (as registered by the DMV in all states, on a broader scope...countries)?
---- Do we band together and build it to have options or focus on a single build...then branch out (ie. electric, hybrid, ICE, different mold of body shapes, ground up build or using a modified donor vehicle, etc...)?
---- Do we structure the Non-for-profit to facilitate other DIYer "green energy" options in the future (solar, hydro, wind power), or stick with one mission....the automobile.
---- Do we structure the Non-for-profit to be focused on Global Change or only on the "local" North American culture
---- Do we structure the Non-for-profit to be able to encompass/support many of the other Open-Source builds that are going on globally (in everybody's garages) or keep it more closed with a defined end product?
- We still need to define "who" all will be on the board and work together on a business plan, mission statement, etc...(although I'm willing to take on the majority of the work/research).

Here's what I truly envision.

1. Make a significant impact on the world by assisting others to make the same impact (ripple effect).
2. Give clear and concise direction to other DIYers who are looking for affordable "eco friendly" transportation options.
3. Be an education organisation.
4. Since I'd like to open source the project/projects, I think that nonprofit would not necessarily be the "producer" of the vehicle or the parts (maybe some of them) but allow the participants who have donated their time to the mission of the project to monetize their time/effort. (ie. Somebody designs a bolt on body that incorporates solar panels for regeneration, let them produce and sell it to anybody that is looking for that functionality. If somebody designs a better charge controller, let them sell it...rather than the nonprofit organization owning the rights to the sale of that piece or part, etc, etc...)
- 4.1. The nonprofit WOULD be able to help negotiate manufacturing deals, parts alliances, etc.
- 4.2. The nonprofit would hopefully own the license to the "end product" if the nonprofit wanted to build and sell them/it as a complete package.
5. I feel it needs to be a place where engineering students, graphic design students (even law students), etc...can come together and exercise their ability and build their portfolio.
6. I'd love to see this take off because of dedicated, hard working people who care about the planet we've been entitled to and we all want to make a global impact on society.
7. I see the whole organization as an open source project.

Again I say, I don't know the legalities of all of this stuff.

Who's involved? I have one solid verbal commitment other than me.
I'm working on some others however, I can't say that I have them in my pocket...yet...
-- A couple of others that I'm talking to already have "solely" made significant progress on a design and prototype and need exposure, direction, or funding.
-- I also have calls into some that are current business owners that supply the EV/Hybrid industry with products that are needed with a build of this nature.

Me - I'm not a business expert, rather a visionary, a do-er, a front man...willing to make all the pieces and parts work together and sell the idea and product to the public. Take a look at my LinkedIn, I don't outline much of my experience previous to the sales experience but while I was working as an EMT, I went to Nursing School for my RN. When I was in the Construction field, I learned many of the valuable fabrication skills that will be needed to help on the "shop floor" and on the "build" of the vehicle. I also managed large scale construction projects while working as a superintendent. This alone is invaluable experience for managing an ever changing, volatile environment in real time.

The Verbal Commitment - Bachelor of Science in Mathematics, minors in Physics and Computer Science from the College of Idaho, MBA from University of Phoenix, and inventor.

Ok, where do I make money?
Where do you make money?
Why a nonprofit?

The answer to the latter is simple for me, because of the nature of open-source, because of the direction of my mission (mission statement to be defined), because of the NEED for others expertise other than myself, because there are greater funding opportunities, because (local and global) community involvement is crucial to the success of this project, because it's easier to attain sponsorship, and the list goes on and on.

Nobody on the board will INITIALLY profit from this venture (I need enlightened on some of this more). Eventually, myself and all of the board members should be compensated but because of the initial "lack of" compensation everybody needs to be passionate about the value that we can provide to society. I'm really looking for ALL of the board members to be passionate about "green, eco-friendly" energy options and better yet be passionate about providing safe, affordable, energy saving transportation education and solutions to low and middle class Americans.

Does this interest you?
Where do you fall within the above statement?
Why should you be involved?
Will you "stick it" out for long haul?

Where can you help from a business development perspective?

Additional Board Members - We will be in need of an accountant and secretary at minimum and an individual that's educated on business plans would be a huge plus.

Additional help needed - Someone to assist with methodical research to pull together a complete data set of other similar projects, potential partners, etc..., web designer/programmer, website hosting (hopefully find one locally to donate this for the first year), auto cad/engineer, donation of shop space (depending on where we decide to make ground zero), local machine shop that is willing to participate in small parts manufacturing, social media manager, etc...

I can and will provide several links to others that I think have a successful open source project going, why they are successful, etc...
I can and will provide links to open source projects that failed and why I think that they failed.
I can provide assistant with all of the research I mentioned above because I'm getting a good handle on it at this point. (I've also talked to an individual in Charlotte that is willing to help with this and already has a head start due to past research).

I want this to be BIG.
I need some help to make this happen.

Once we have the non-for-profit in place we'll be able to start the funding process.

Please Let Me Know If You're Interested In Helping Me With This Venture
- Open to all ideas, criticism, praise, and otherwise.

All the best,

Wayne
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[namenerb]

Hey Wayne,
What is your current status on the project? I have been getting closer to starting a fwd tr project, but life is busy. You can see my current electric bike at FunEcars.com I have it in final teardown and hope to market it this coming Spring, then use the proceeds on the next rt project. There are some guys in my area doing replicas of the T-Rex, and I may have them do framework, etc, but I want front wheel drive, push the passenger compartment back some, separate passenger pod, etc. I would love to do electric, but plan a gasser for the first mule chassis. Once I know I have that done to my satisfaction, then just switch to the electric drive which is the expensive part. Actually, satisfactory batteries are the expensive part; the motor and controller are pretty reasonable. A new lithium pouch type may be out in a year or so; their prototype is more than twice the power of the best A123 cells and they say 10% cheaper. That's worth waiting for. Freedom Motors has a very small, efficient rotary engine prototype that would be a good range extender, but last time I talked to them it was still not close to production. My main concerns are: Safety- front wheel drive reduces the chance of losing traction on water or loose gravel, etc. Having the drive train mass in front reduces the crash damage to the passengers. Most crashed bikes I see have been frontal crashes... I would like good crush zones, especially on the sides. Next, efficiency... I am looking at a prototype F1 aerodesign which looks fantastic for the front half, then would like the rear to have the Aptera whaletail design... come to a flat horizontal tail vs. the vertical tail that I see way too much. I'm good with open-source and independent shops each making a component available. I have a cnc vertical mill that is my living, so I can build any xyz type machined parts needed. I also have a friend with a cnc lathe that I can have access to between his production runs. I also favor using as many oem components as possible in the drivetrain. My biggest stumbling block now is to find a small lightweight transmission that is centered. If I can convert to electric at some point, my hope would be that the electric motor could set inline either front or rear of the differential/transmission. If anyone knows of any components that would be good to consider, I would appreciate the input. NuVinci, in my area, makes bicycle variable speed transmissions and last year were working on a larger version to power engine blowers. Those might possibly handle enough horsepower to go straight into a differential but I have not spoken to them recently. They did sound like they would be willing to let me adapt the mounts, etc so that I could try it on a project like my electric bike. I like the input I've seen so far and need to go back and re-read the thread for details, but I like where y'all are going and would like to be a part. Does anyone here have Solidworks? I have access to an older version, but am only mediocre on it and have not learned enough about 3D sketches to draw the framework, etc.

[freebeard]

Have you placed any bets whether the Original Poster will revisit his thread?

If anyone knows of any components that would be good to consider, I would appreciate the input ... I like the input I've seen so far and need to go back and re-read the thread for details, but I like where y'all are going and would like to be a part. Does anyone here have Solidworks?

I went back and read the thread. The OP wanted to start up a business he could be Chairman of the Board of and everybody else wanted to talk 'retarded camshaft motorcycle engine'. A lot of re-inventing of reverse trikes.

It sounds like the T-Rex is you point of comparison. For a project vehicle I would look at:

• XR3
• Blackjack Zero
• Arcimoto

and if you want to disrupt the auto industry

• Local Motors

Search the Ecomodder Forum for 'Reverse Trike' and get 1350 results. HydroJim has some recent threads.

HTH

[namenerb]

Hey HTH,
Thanks for your reply. Yes, I'll look through more threads. I know pretty much what design I want; toughest part is finding the oem parts that make the job easier. I see lots of projects that looked like someone had a torch and pile of scrap steel and went to work. Having spent lots of years doing stunt driving, film production stuff, etc, I know what kind of handling I want and know pretty much what feel I want in the ride. I keep hoping that I'll stumble on someone with more experience that can jump in with me, but I understand that with everyone being so scattered geographically, along with having numerous ideas that it is tough to get a real project off the ground. I'll most likely just keep plugging through it myself and eventually end up with decent. My ultimate goal would be that my current small cnc machine shop could produce enough of my own projects that I could get rid of the production runs that keep me covered up now but offer little reward other than compensation. I would love to have half the fab equipment of OCC or similar.

[freebeard]

HTH means 'Hope That Helps'. That's BBS talk, you know, before Internet.

When you say you "know pretty much what design [you] want", do you have a list of specifications, or are you down to the materials cut list?

I like the backbone frame on the XR3, but it uses Chevy Citation front suspension and a suggested Kubota diesel for power. The Blackjack Zero uses a VW 1302 transaxle and VW Rabbit front suspension, and has an awesome side-draft Weber induction system (and the Moto-Guzzi V-twin option); but the steel ladder frame doesn't impress like the XR3's.

If you dig deep enough into the Blackjack Zero website you will find him (it's one guy) soliciting people to manufacture his parts in the United States. So there is at least one opportunity to put your mill to work. The website resists deep linking, but you can click on Kits & Prices and go to the bottom of the page.

HAND (Have a Nice Day)

[namenerb]

I'm trying to attach a pic of an F1 prototype. There are elements of it that I'd like to incorporate in my body design. Front suspension- double a-arm with inboard inline shocks-probably air ride. Like the Aptera, I would like the front end to bolt up to the front of the body. They had some angle to the mounting surface so that in a major impact, the body would tend to detach and go upward. Initially, I am open to almost any powerplant but would prefer to keep the nose cone as narrow as possible. My preference on the body would be a double wall monocoque but would like to still have functional doors and fully enclosed compartment. The rear airfoil would be somewhat near the Aptera back end. The F1 front lower wing would have a matching upper wing. The wings would match the a-arm profile and reduce wind drag while adding support to the fender airfoils. On the F! front wheel airform... I would also to the rear of the tires and blend that toward the body to push air in toward the rear of the car, reducing vacuum there. I would love to get an initial rendering in Solidworks, but time is not my friend. First drive is to get the mule on the road, then refine each component, possibly selling prototypes instead of replacing sections. I appreciate all the responses and would be glad to keep anything I do as open source for all. Tom, I do intend 100% body skin, and Freebeard, I will contact the guy with Blackjack.

[NeilBlanchard]

Thanks for that F1 image - that is a great looking race car. Where did you get it?

But for a high efficiency car, the front and rear wings need to go away, and the overall shape and volume should be large and blunt in the front and have a long taper in the back.