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Old 10-13-2012, 01:39 AM   #241 (permalink)
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:26 PM   #242 (permalink)
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Awesome thread. Just made it all the way through! Look forward to more progress on this project.
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Old 10-15-2012, 07:18 PM   #243 (permalink)
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Just some extra feedback from the test, while to video is being readied.
Here is a still from the video - this was a section where we filmed from a car while the bike drove on a bumpy section of the apron. This was to watch the suspension action, so that I could evaluate how well it functioned.



After checking the machine over after the test, I found a fault which explains the dissappointing performance. The fabricated inlet port runner (which I expected problems with) had fractured, causing a severe air leak. This undoubtedly affected the power output and throttle response, so I'm not so shocked about the poor performance, in hindsight.
I think a retest is in order, so I'll fix the faults and finish the jobs that are in the pipeline, then go again. The video should be finished in a week or so, and that will be my next post.
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Old 10-15-2012, 07:39 PM   #244 (permalink)
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You might want to install a roll bar that extends up above the helmet. You don't want to be strappped into that position and skidding along on the top of your helmet in the event of a crash.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:52 AM   #245 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
You might want to install a roll bar that extends up above the helmet. You don't want to be strappped into that position and skidding along on the top of your helmet in the event of a crash.
Very good point. Or have the helmet catch the full impact of an edge... otherwise known as removing the helmet, with or without the head still attached!
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:34 AM   #246 (permalink)
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A few comments, based on FF experience

Hello Visionary,
I've just spent several hours reading right through your whole saga. First of all, congratulations on putting the whole thing together and best of luck in achieving your goals. Although I've never built any FF or recumbent motorcycles, I have ridden a lot, and owned several, including the Flying Banana, an original Quasar and now, the Pegram Genesis 650. I've also had the great pleasure of riding Craig Vetter's Helix, two Gurney Alligators and lots of Ecomobiles and Monotracers including both of the X-prize-winning electric ones. I've also ridden several Hossacks, Cedric Lynch's electric streamliner and the Agni racer that won the first electric TT in 2009. (All of the above can be viewed at bikeweb dot com)
I'm bound to say that I agree with Craig that you won't have enough power to crack the ton in your beast. Frankly, I'll be astonished if you manage to get much above 80mph in it, bearing in mind that 80mph is what Craig's streamlined Helix manages with its 17bhp and raised gearing. I think you'd have to build something much closer to an NSU streamliner to go past 100mph with even a tuned C90 engine.
I also think a foot throttle is a bad idea for a road-legal motorcycle and I say that having ridden Mick Broom's F650-powered FF. (I'm not allowed to a link yet, but it too can be found on bikeweb dot com).
Enough for now. I look forward very much to seeing the airfield video and I hope we can meet in the not too distant future. Best of luck with the project!
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Old 10-17-2012, 04:42 PM   #247 (permalink)
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Some quick replies

Re: Rollhoop – thanks to eco-generator and Patrick for your concern and suggestion. If I can refer you to post #011 and the visual of the projected bodywork, you will see that a fully enclosed roof section, incorporating full roll-over protection is a cornerstone of the design. At present much of the external bodywork is incomplete, but I judge that there is much to be learned from these early tests, without waiting to complete every section.

Re: Speed target – thanks to PaulBlez for your informative post. I have followed your work for many years and defer to your experience while I still hope to prove you wrong, even though I suspect that the odds are very definitely in your favour. At the outset of this project I said that the task would be difficult one, and during the build I have reinforced that opinion. At present I have the frontal area below target, power capability in excess of the 11.5hp that’s needed, and it all comes down to hitting my Cd target with the final body shape – so I remain optimistic.
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:49 PM   #248 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visionary;

[B
Re: Speed target[/B] – thanks to PaulBlez for your informative post. [SNIP] At present I have the frontal area below target, power capability in excess of the 11.5hp that’s needed, and it all comes down to hitting my Cd target with the final body shape – so I remain optimistic.
You're welcome Visionary & thanks for your PM.

Now then, about this 11.5bhp calculation. Are you sure that it allows for the monstrous tyres that you've hampered your machine with?! I'm sure Cedric Lynch would say that they're the equivalent of a boxer trying to fight with one hand behind his back! Bear in mind that he runs his road-going 60mph electric streamliner on bicycle tyres because he's so obsessed with rolling resistance; I couldn't even persuade him to use the skinny tyres that are fitted to sporty Thai 125cc step-thrus but I think you should consider them! I'll bet you a drag bike tyre to a Tour de France racing tubeless that if you do the sums correctly those chunky 600 and 750 tyres will up your power requirement to at least 15bhp, if not more!
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:36 PM   #249 (permalink)
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Even if you miss your MPH target, I think it's an awesome project! Besides, if the 90 runs out of steam, Honda had a 125 that should bolt right in.
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Old 10-18-2012, 08:57 AM   #250 (permalink)
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Upping the MPG ante: from 100mpg to 282mpg!

I'm surprised that no-one seems to have commented on the considerable upping of the fuel consumption target that Visionary has set himself.

From an eminently achievable 100mpg (especially if it was 100mpgUK), it is now, apparently, 100kms per litre, which is 235mpgUS and 282mpgUK!

Bearing in mind the weight of the beast, and the rolling resistance of those massively over-specced tyres, I can't see this being achieved in any kind of normal road use, whether in town or on the open road.

To give some point of reference, when I rode Craig Vetter's hundred mile test loop of very varied Californian out-of-town going, I was very impressed that his Helix achieved 85mpgUS 100mpgUK despite being ridden pretty hard.

I can't see the C90 Project beast managing nearly three times the fuel efficiency of Craig's Helix streamliner, even if it were being driven considerably slower.
PNB
PS I still can't post links on this site, but if anyone's interested Craig put up a photo of me in his machine, quoting the above consumption figures, when making reference to last year's Quail Challenge on 13th May 2011.

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