Removing Ethanol from Gasoline

[Nerys]

First there is no drain off. The washing was temporary IE I ran through 35 or so gallons of gasoline washing (so less than 3.5 gallons of ethanol) I was prepared to take it to my local gas station to put in his waste tank but the water company said its perfectly ok to dump it down the drain. so thats exactly what I did. (it asked and answered many times)

if I were to do this long term I would look into a way of salvaging the ethanol as it should make a good stove fuel.

[ac7ss]

Glad to hear that. As someone mentioned before, fractional distillation will do well to separate Eth/h2o. you can re-use the water and burn the fuel. (As also mentioned, be careful and legal.)

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by ac7ss

Nerys: What do you do with the water you drain off? I hope you are not just dumping it down the drain or into a septic field. (It is considered hazardous waste.)

Actually that stuff is VERY usefull for anyone with water injection on their car.

He could likely work out a deal with someone who either has a big diesel or a racing attitude.

Cheers
Ryan

[Nerys]

now that is an interesting idea rmay that just might make it worth doing this longer term. What do you think people would pay for this? 2/3 water 1/3 ethanol would they pay a $1 a gallon for it? I MIGHT be able to get it to 50/50 but I like using a bit more water to INSURE I get full separation.

I still have no solid feedback that the water in the fuel or lack of other "additives" won't harm my engine though.

still need to figure out the legal aspect of storage. IE how can I legally store say 50 gallons of fuel. this would be much easier if I could do a lot all at once instead of 10 gallons "as I need it"

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Nerys

now that is an interesting idea rmay that just might make it worth doing this longer term. What do you think people would pay for this? 2/3 water 1/3 ethanol would they pay a $1 a gallon for it? I MIGHT be able to get it to 50/50 but I like using a bit more water to INSURE I get full separation.

A lot of "those" guys buy industrial windshield washer fluid (which is basically a mix of methanol and water) I would estimate they would pay about the same rate for your ethanol mix. Not really sure though, you would have to find out if anyone nearby is into that and is willing to have a steady supply of it.

The additives that are washed out likely do absolutely nothing to help or detriment your engine, they do however likely affect oxygenation and specific pollution levels.

And my additive of choice (MMO) reduces wear

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Nerys

so then why is your solution to RUIN the fuel economy of our vehicles MAKING THE AIR YOU HAVE TO BREATH WORSE UFO. ???

You have two VERY conflicting perspectives here that you really need to resolve within yourself.

I drive a Geo metro because it burns the LEAST AMOUNT OF FUEL OF ANY CURRENTLY AVAILABLE GASOLINE ENGINES VEHICLE.

Its even cleaner than a PRIUS OR A LEAF when construction is taken into account (hey you said AIR you breath so you have to count THAT pollution too)

SO any more bright ideas?

Since we are talking about peeing in pools how about you stop wasting my water. I prefer to drink it instead of shoving MILLIONS of gallons of it into ETHANOL production that is not the tinest bit cleaner than gasoline.

so you STILL get stinky air and now we have less WATER too.

You are confusing me with someone else. My daily driving is exclusively biodiesel and blends. I am committed to renewable fuel to reduce pollution and promote energy independence. And IMHO the way forward is not through the corn and soy agribusiness.

But carburetors and polluting vehicles need to be retired. Of course there should be exceptions for collector and specialty vehicles, but if it's easy and cheap to register them, pollution levels will increase unnecessarily. The used market is full of low cost and efficient vehicles, and they are cheaper to operate.

[gone-ot]

...or-r-r-r-r-r, you could just use the residual stuff as windshield washer fluid!

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by UFO

You are confusing me with someone else. My daily driving is exclusively biodiesel and blends. I am committed to renewable fuel to reduce pollution and promote energy independence. And IMHO the way forward is not through the corn and soy agribusiness.

Agreed 1000% These businesses are very inefficient and highly energy and chemical dependant. Fuels from materials that
1. Need no fertalizer
2. Require minimal if any tilling,cultivating (AKA use diesel fuel to produce)
would be optimal.

Originally Posted by UFO

But carburetors and polluting vehicles need to be retired. Of course there should be exceptions for collector and specialty vehicles, but if it's easy and cheap to register them, pollution levels will increase unnecessarily. The used market is full of low cost and efficient vehicles, and they are cheaper to operate.

On this I disagree, there are MANY exceptional vehicles from years past that can achieve fuel economy levels that are very challenging to meet with most modern car offerings which all hover in the 30mpg area.

The true path to reducing real pollution is to
1. First and most importantly reduce the pollution from production and transport of the fuel, the pollution from making a gallon of gas and getting it to you far exceeds the pollution of burning of that gallon of gas.

2. Second the next best way to reduce pollution is to reduce the amount of pollution created by making the car, quite easily using the car longer does this. Making the car many times makes more pollution than the gas it will burn.

3. Third the best way of reducing REAL pollution from just the vehicles emissions itself is to reduce the amount of fuel consumed, even if the vehicle has more volitiles in the exhaust the impact from reducing the amount of fuel used is far more effective than burning more fuel to have a lower percent of volitiles, nox & sulphur all of which degrade in the environment and are harmless in rural areas. Only cities and population centers really need NOX limited. To me reducing CO2 is primary, exotics usually break down whereas CO2 will not.

4. The last thing you need to do to reduce overall volume of pollution is to have improved pollution controls, a properly designed & tuned engine and a basic cat do the job as best as is reasonable. Some exceptional engines actually do better with no cat in place and are optimal. Beyond that are rather steep diminishing returns and potentially technolgies that create pollution above and beyond the exhaust just because of themselves. Urea for example is adding a transport, packaging and manufacturing set of pollution that is likely NOT recovered during its operation on MOST vehicles excluding the very largest. You will find the same to be true of most overly exotic pollution controls in that they really are increasing pollution in the form of increased manufacturing, transport & packaging levels, least of which is increased costs & maintenance.

Cheers
Ryan May

[Nerys]

Again you are incorrect. in your special little world maybe (no insult being serious now) many families can ONLY HAVE ONE CAR and that ONLY CAR can not be a small compact econo car. its just that simple.

NOW I can afford to have multiple cars. So I have the cherokee for the winter and the big honking clubwagon for long trips.

My club wagon is FAR FAR more efficient than anything you drive on an equal basis comparison.

I can lug 7 people COMFORTABLY with ALL their gear and the camper on tow at FAR better fuel economy than you can since YOU would require at least 3 cars to do the same thing. so if you get 30mpg your EFFECTIVE mpg is 10mpg lets not even factor in the production and maintenance of your 3 cars to do the same job.

SO please explain to me how society is benefited by enacting a fuel that does MORE harm to the environment EVEN IN cars designed for it (you MAY NOT ignore the pollution of its production. sorry you just can't)

so how does society gain by reducing the fuel economy of my van from 19mpg to 13mpg? explain that to me please.

Oh but wait I should buy a NEW VAN right? ok lets assume I am filthy rich (this is a GREEN issue to you afterall so lets ignore the dollar for a moment)

2011 E150 Full Size van (closest thing to my 1992 E150 XLT Clubwagon) but dollars are no issue so I can afford to make a nice interior for this new van.

city 13mpg highway 17mpg

explain to me UFO how this is an improvement? Please explain this to me?

I have a purpose built function I need to perform. this requires this van. I used to get 19mpg SOLID now I get 13mpg average.

THE NEW VAN the BRAND SPANKING NEW 2011 van you seem to think its OK to force me to buy because you want a cleaner environment and I should have a NEWER vehicle right?

17mpg. Explain that to me. its 2mpg LOWER than my "old dirty van" as you seem to think it is.

Lets compare again.

1996 Voyager 28mpg on E0 20-21mpg E10

this is a good decent all around family vehicle. a light small 3.0 V6 engine. it can town a small trailer if need be and it can hold the family and their cargo.

lets compare shall we. (note a plymouth voyager is EXACTLY the same thing as a dodge caravan)

SO let me get this straight. HOW DARE I drive an old dirty vehicle with horrible fuel economy. I should be green and CARE for the planet (even though the CORE of GREEN IS REUSE !!!!! and you want me to BUY NEW)

so what the hell lets go buy a BRAND SPANKING NEW 2011 Dodge Caravan.

25mpg....... wait something is not right here.

my van 28mpg the new van 25mpg ???????

DO YOU NOT SEE SOMETHING WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE UFO ???

SO I do what you said. I took the old dirty cars off the road and replace them with BRAND SPANKING NEW versions of the same exact cars and the new ones GET WORSE FUEL ECONOMY.

how is this being greener? how is this lowering pollution?

I told you in the beginning my "bull****" detection method for "green"

if its not cheaper its NOT GREENER.

Greener by definition is CHEAPER because greener ultimately means USE LESS and USING LESS is always CHEAPER.

so if its not cheaper its either artificially priced or its just simply NOT GREENER.

This is why NIMH powered EV's are GREENER and LITHIUM powered EV's are NOT greener and is also why you can NOT buy a NIMH powered EV but can buy an expensive Lithium powered EV.

Biodiesel? you call that green? not even close. for YOU sure yes for YOU as one single solitary individual its "greener" but biodiesel is a non starter we CAN NOT DO IT for everyone there is not enough restaurants using enough oil to make it work.

and define BLENDS. blends is not greener. blends of what? E10 is a BLEND and it sure as hell is not greener.

"And IMHO the way forward is not through the corn and soy agribusiness"

well at least we agree on that 100%

"But carburetors and polluting vehicles need to be retired"

this is BS and you know it. a carborated car getting 40mpg is FAR FAR cleaner than a fuel injected car getting 15mpg.

and NONE of my cars save the 74 Thing is carborated.

Polluting FUELS need to be retired. NOT polluting cars. so RETIRE ethanol since it pollutes far more than gasoline does.

and don't give me any carbon crap if your truly for "greener" then you know damned well there is a lot more to pollution than CARBON.

they harp on carbon because that is the ONLY measure by which Ethanol "might" be cleaner and even that is in question.

so tell me. you really think that 3 or 4 PRIUS' are cleaner and less polluting than my ONE Clubwagon? thats how many of those you would need to drive to do the same thing I am doing with the one van.

SO how many prius' would you need to haul "materials" from one place to another instead of that dirty pickup truck?

how big is your family? what VEHICLES do you drive. your biodiesel is NOT clean is NOT green and is NOT renewable. its just "cleaner" than gasoline but only if you use LESS than I would in gasoline.

so how many MPG do you get? how many people can you fit in it? is it just you and your wife? JUST you?

I always 95% of the time have 3 people in my car. compared to how many prius' I see driving around with ONE person in the car?

you want to REALLY come out as GREEN UFO. they lets put the cards on the table. How green are you actually. not just "apparently"

because there is BEING GREEN and then there is the "IMAGE" of green without actually being green.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

...or-r-r-r-r-r, you could just use the residual stuff as windshield washer fluid!

Assuming it didn't smear ethanol based windshield washer fluid would be much more environmentally friendly than methanol based ones.