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Old 05-06-2014, 12:20 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 94_C1500 View Post
I personally don't understand the need for power brakes. Have any of you ever driven with manual brakes? My Jeeps don't have power assist and I can't even tell.
Your Jeeps have 4-wheel disc brakes?

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Old 05-06-2014, 12:36 PM   #42 (permalink)
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The only factor that makes cable brakes not so practical in newer vehicles is that it's not possible to fit it with ABS. But I have no objection for hydraulic brakes without the vacuum boost, I have already driven a handful of subcompacts and a Suzuki Vitara fitted with non-assisted hydraulic brakes.
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Old 05-06-2014, 12:37 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94_C1500 View Post
I personally don't understand the need for power brakes. Have any of you ever driven with manual brakes? My Jeeps don't have power assist and I can't even tell.
I had a strange problem one day where the motor was acting strangely, it was working with 2 cyl, very roughly, etc. but the thing is that then it took out ALL the assistance, so no ABS, no ESP, no traction control, no hill-holder, no power steering, no power brakes. The direct steering felt somewhat good, but heavy in the city, but you can feel everything on the road, so, no problem there. The brakes were a very different story because this car is very sensitive and the brakes are very good, but without assistance you have to press with all your strength and, even then, the car doesn't stops as you would want, so, very VERY dangerous, especially for someone with no physical condition.
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Old 05-06-2014, 12:38 PM   #44 (permalink)
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It's hard to not panic when you aren't paying attention in the first place. Add on the fact that most drivers only know how to start the car and aim (not drive) in the direction they want to go and you have a recipe for disaster no matter what the equipment failure may be.

A sticking gas pedal is no excuse to crash when you have control to throw it in N. An engine stalling isn't reason either as you still have control with systems rooted in manual operation. I'm not sure about the columns locking...my 5spd Saturn will lock with the key turned ALL the way to off...but only excuse for crashing would be if it locked while in a turn.

People are oblivious and distracted and for some reason auto makers keep adding more distractions and deal with the lawsuits because they were able to boost sales with the newest IPhone interface
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Old 05-06-2014, 12:52 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Part of the need for all these power assistance systems comes from the great mass of the vehicles. If we didn't insist on weighing them down with sturdy side intrusion beams and ABS and power everything the silly things would weigh a lot less and be a much lesser threat to each other on the road in accidents. And then we might not NEED so much in the way of ABS and side intrusion beams because the vehicles would be easier to stop and not thrust so intrusively into other people's cars.

Light is right. Less mass is gooder.
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Old 05-06-2014, 01:04 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokeduv View Post
I had a strange problem one day where the motor was acting strangely, it was working with 2 cyl, very roughly, etc. but the thing is that then it took out ALL the assistance, so no ABS, no ESP, no traction control, no hill-holder, no power steering, no power brakes. The direct steering felt somewhat good, but heavy in the city, but you can feel everything on the road, so, no problem there. The brakes were a very different story because this car is very sensitive and the brakes are very good, but without assistance you have to press with all your strength and, even then, the car doesn't stops as you would want, so, very VERY dangerous, especially for someone with no physical condition.
It's kinda odd that power-assisted brakes get actually harder than a non-assisted setup during a failure.
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Old 05-06-2014, 01:29 PM   #47 (permalink)
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The pedal in a power assisted system isn't designed to operate the brakes- it's designed to operate the assist. Applying force through an inop hydraulic system to the brakes is harder than applying force directly to the brakes.
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Old 05-06-2014, 02:47 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elhigh View Post
Part of the need for all these power assistance systems comes from the great mass of the vehicles. If we didn't insist on weighing them down with sturdy side intrusion beams and ABS and power everything the silly things would weigh a lot less and be a much lesser threat to each other on the road in accidents. And then we might not NEED so much in the way of ABS and side intrusion beams because the vehicles would be easier to stop and not thrust so intrusively into other people's cars.

Light is right. Less mass is gooder.

You're right. With these cars getting bigger and heavier and with more and more electronics monitoring and controlling things, I'm afraid that some thing doesn't work as expected. Drive-by-wire steering? well, maybe it will be lighter, but if something electric fails, you have nothing to do unless you have an auxiliary system, as a full steering rack, so it's heavy again to make it safe. Safety has made cars heavier and I would agree with you, because a good driver with a good and light chassis would overcome many of the hazards, but now people buy cars just to go from A to B and don't care about the car (or in some cases, in their surroundings) and get distracted, so you need all the safety measures possibles
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Old 05-06-2014, 04:03 PM   #49 (permalink)
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I think there needs to be fewer laws, not more. What we need more of is personal responsibility.

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It is unbelievable that some people got killed in developed nations in modern times because the engine stopped running (again GM recall style).
Yes, unbelievable. But not for the reasons you are thinking. Killing the engine won't kill the driver. Some other error was involved.
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Old 05-06-2014, 04:05 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Quote:
Part of the need for all these power assistance systems comes from the great mass of the vehicles.
Sorry, there are many modern vehicles that weigh less than my '59 Biscayne with manual brakes and steering, and almost all of them have assisted brakes and steering.

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