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Old 06-18-2008, 10:51 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Oh dear.

I look with an extremely jaded eye on anyone who espouses any one solution as the be-all, end-all answer to the problem in question. It's too simplistic an answer to what is really a much more complex situation.

We currently stand in an economic crisis that includes skyrocketing prices for crude oil, which trickles down to skyrocketing prices for fuel, plastics, fertilizers etc. The pricing crisis is not exclusively the demesnes of the petroleum industry, however. A fair portion of it is coming from other markets as well. That doesn't mean that radically reducing our reliance on foreign energy is a bad thing. But consider...

If we then invest tremendous sums of money, labor, and time into the ONE SOLUTION that can fix it all! ... (commercial hemp production? Really?) ... then how long before we find ourselves in a hemp crisis?

Eggs and baskets, as they say. A crop failure - or even just another droughty summer like we had last year - and the commodity pricing goes through the stratosphere. Rich people can make a killing speculating on that market while the rest of us just get it in the shorts. Unfortunately, the rich folks' speculating tends to fuel and extend the crisis. We continue to get it in the shorts. We are seeing the effects of this already in our current economic situation; we can also look to what happened with California's situation right after they deregulated their electrical utilities. Immediately, providers began gaming the system, much to the detriment of California's ratepayers. No malice was intended, but the utilities aren't in the business of making electricity, they're in the business of making MONEY. They do that by generating and selling electricity to whoever will pay the most for it. We are in the same situation now - and by golly, the prices keep going up and we keep paying them.

I do agree that commercial hemp is an unjustly maligned crop. You'd have to smoke a bale of it to get a buzz. Of course, you'd be dead of smoke inhalation before that took place, but I understand that can also be a rather heady experience, so you never know - someone just might give it a try. Don't know where they'll find papers that big, though.

Increasing hemp production would be a good thing. It would increase domestic textile production, which is great all around. It's good for farmers, good for business, good for consumers. But is it the grand solution to everything listed at the top of the thread? No.

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Old 06-18-2008, 11:05 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zjrog View Post
... the rest is such illogical diatribe...

Dude, put down the doobie.

Sorry, you lost me when you started into the whole drug adn CIA conspiracy crap.
You said it.
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:02 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Hello,

I recently heard about a fast growing willow tree that can be grown in 3 years, and the whole tree can be used to make methanol. I think this was at a university in New York -- I heard about it on Science Friday.

Also, there is Jatropha that can be turned into biodiesel.
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Old 06-18-2008, 06:10 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I do try to stay open to different ideas and thought processes... Plenty of alternatives. Methanol can be made from plenty of sources, tree barks and hedge clippings. Anything that can be turned into biomass.

I have plenty of these discussions with my brother in law who is an assistant professor in a business college.
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Old 06-18-2008, 07:41 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Old 06-18-2008, 07:46 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Allan interesting if we can stay focused and keep the discussion on industrial hemps as an alternative fuel. What is the cost to produce a gallon of hemp oil?

Are these figures correct to produce just the oil?

Quote:
Grown for oilseed, Canadian grower's yields average 1 tonne/hectare, or about 400 lbs. per acre. Cannabis seed contains about 28% oil (112 lbs.), or about 15 gallons per acre. Production costs using these figures would be about $35 per gallon. Some varieties are reported[iv] to yield as much as 38% oil, and a record 2,000 lbs. per acre was recorded in 1999. At this rate, 760 lbs.of oil per acre would result in about 100 gallons of oil, with production costs totaling about $5.20 gallon. This oil could be used as-is in modified diesel engines, or be converted to biodiesel using a relatively simple, automated process. Several systems are under development worldwide designed to produce biodiesel on a small scale, such as on farms using "homegrown" oil crops.
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Old 06-18-2008, 08:17 PM   #17 (permalink)
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If you were to study the issue like I have you too would be convinced that Marijuana Prohibition is not because it is a dangerous drug(it's not), but it is illegal to protect the profits of the oil companies, and the pharmeceutical companies, among others.
I thought the excuse for the ban was that hemp would make non-white people crazy rapists of white women.
http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/stori...naIllegal.html
http://www.sinsebility.com/history.htm

Amusingly, the first marijuana law was apparently enacted in Jamestown, Virginia in 1619 requiring all farmers to grow Indian hemp seed.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...ed+law&spell=1

We could fix the entire problem of drug use/abuse real quick with this simple, sensible, and modest program (dare I call it a proposal? ):
My proposal would also allow for the covering of all waste ground in forests of hemp for harvesting as oil, fiber, whatever.

1: Put all types of intoxicating drugs out in big tubs, anyone of legal age can take as much as they want. You can grow, distill, synthesize whatever you want, as long as the smell, byproducts. waste, etc. of doing so do not pollute/damage-the-environment-or-ecosystem/get-ingested-by-the-unwilling. Note carefully item 7. Use and posession of antibiotics is restricted. This destroys the profit of drug manufacture/sale.

2: Voluntary (intentional) public intoxication (on any intoxicant) is long time at the work farm. Stay inside at home or in an "opium den" while intoxicated is OK. Also see item 7. This keeps the sidewalks free of vomit and bodies. No more drunks peeing on your doorstep, or doing a poor live action re-make of "A Clockwork Orange"

3: Hurting someone if driving while intoxicated (on anything) is life at the work farm. This is just common sense, and should be this way now.

4: Anyone who wants public assistance has to pass a drug test every week. No public assistance for anyone using any intoxicants. Their kids are tested as well. If their kids have been taking intoxicants the kids go to a kindler, gentler, juvie work farm.
This is self-evident.

5: No free emergency room/other medical attention to anyone who is intoxicated (on anything). Someone ODs, or falls of a roof while intoxicated (on anything) and has no insurace to pay for care? Too bad. If you want to be treated, you agree to go to the work farm afterwards to pay off your debt. If you are so spaced out you cannot agree, We will wait till it wears off. If you die in the meantime, too bad. (There are no drugs allowed at the work farm. I'm thinking of a more profit-and-production-oriented version of the movie "Cool Hand Luke", but without the gratuitous killing as a guiding principle for running a work farm) There is no reason that society should have to pay for those who cannot use drugs responsibly.

6. A person who is not intoxicated is presumed to have acted lawfully, if in self defense, OR IN DEFENSE OF PROPERTY, they use deadly force against someone who IS (or is determined to be by appropriate testing) intoxicated. Stand your ground and castle law in effect.

7. Knowingly tricking someone into taking an intoxicant, or putting roofies, etc. into womens drinks at a bar, etc., OR putting intoxicants into the air or water supply, or food, where the unwilling ingest them: death penalty.

I think you can all agree this is just Darwin updated. Those who choose to take intoxicating drugs can do so as long as they behave responsibly and do not impose themselves on the rest of society. Otherwise, work farm, jail, or dead.

My thanks to Jonathan Swift for his assistance in creating this work.
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Old 06-18-2008, 09:50 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Uummmm I just watched the history of drugs on the History Channel, and the banning of marijuana had absolutely nothing to do with anything involving oil. Many of the major illegal drugs were banned for racial reasons. It was believed that the drugs caused black men to behave aggressively and/or rape white women. No joke.

Seriously, I've come to the conclusion that people will blame the oil companies for everything one day. "Teen pregnancy? It's well known that the oil companies are behind it!" How are those of us who want to change the world going to be taken seriously in the future if we act like we're on drugs right now?

Word to the wise: Don't believe everything you read on the Web.

I'm all for using hemp for fuel, but please don't represent the cause if your argument is absurd. We need men and women to step forward who can be taken seriously.
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Old 06-18-2008, 10:33 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
Allan interesting if we can stay focused and keep the discussion on industrial hemps as an alternative fuel. What is the cost to produce a gallon of hemp oil?

Are these figures correct to produce just the oil?

Quote:
Grown for oilseed, Canadian grower's yields average 1 tonne/hectare, or about 400 lbs. per acre. Cannabis seed contains about 28% oil (112 lbs.), or about 15 gallons per acre. Production costs using these figures would be about $35 per gallon. Some varieties are reported[iv] to yield as much as 38% oil, and a record 2,000 lbs. per acre was recorded in 1999. At this rate, 760 lbs.of oil per acre would result in about 100 gallons of oil, with production costs totaling about $5.20 gallon. This oil could be used as-is in modified diesel engines, or be converted to biodiesel using a relatively simple, automated process. Several systems are under development worldwide designed to produce biodiesel on a small scale, such as on farms using "homegrown" oil crops.

Are these figures correct to produce just the oil?
Production costs totalling $5.20/gal (And this is an old study)
Well thats about the speed of it I guess. Diesel would probably need to be near $8 for this to be profitable as that $5.20 would be around $7.00 now (note: number pulled out of my ass) given that fuel is a significant input cost in farming. Plus there would be transportation costs to market and nobody is going to touch the stuff unless there is some profit in it as well.
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Old 06-19-2008, 12:03 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I would have thought the UK would have invested more in biofuel than they have. Their prices on gas are $15 per gallon in some places now, but they have always been rather high.

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