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Old 04-27-2019, 10:37 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
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90 day: 59.27 mpg (US)

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So you wanna build a muscle-modded ecocar or an ecomodded muscle car? What is that?

Question:

When would you consider a K-swapped G1 Insight or a V-8 Firefly an ecomodded muscle car engine rather than an un-ecomodded eco-ride chassis?

I'd say if the overall car is lighter than the muscle car, has better Cd (or at least CdA), and is supplied with more efficient cruising gear ratios, then its an eco-modded muscle car. Even better if a K-swap is tuned to run leaner at certain low low, light throttle, crusing RPMs, like pgfpro has done.

And similarly, when would you consider a classic car/truck chassis with an eco-engine swap, like the Firebrid or the PriaGhia, to be an eco-ride in addition to being a wicked-cool restomod? Maybe if the overall weight compared to the engine's donor vehicle is reduced?

Favorite such projects appearing on this site in recent years:

The Gaptooth K-swapped G1 Insight
https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...hts-36581.html

samwichse's link to a V8 Firefly (inspire this post)
https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...tml#post596785

The VW PriaGhia:
https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...tml#post575645

The Pontiac Firebrid
https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...tml#post506873

1946 Chevy truck/Prius
https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...tml#post535568

And pgfpro's 1991 Talon
https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...tml#post421143

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See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.


Last edited by California98Civic; 05-05-2019 at 09:59 AM.. Reason: Edited thread title on advice, to reflect the full range of the topic better
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Old 04-27-2019, 01:05 PM   #2 (permalink)
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MisFit Talon - '91 Eagle Talon TSi
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Thanks for the cool post. I'm not sure what I would call them? That's why I always referred to my Talon being a Mis-Fit.

Update on the Talon it has become more of a race/street car in the last few years. The car is extremely fast now and has a moly 8.5 cage. Its a lot lighter but still has an heater wipers and all the stuff so I can drive it 365 days a year.

It has race cams and the lifters are now stock ones verse the FE ones I had in it before. So FE has drop off drastically but I'm sure it will still get around 28-30mpg. I would have to adjust the cam gears for FE though which isn't a big deal.

The fuel I'm running is E98 bio ethanol from "Thunder Bolt Racing Fuel" they make fruit chips. The waste fruit juice is converted to ethanol.


I use the car to do a lot of different things now. This last winter was a bad one and I drove it when the roads were really bad. I won our local dirt Drags with it last Fall. That was a blast beating purposely built dirt drag trucks lol


It sounds a little different now

https://www.facebook.com/russell.ram...055525439/?t=2
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Old 04-28-2019, 09:32 AM   #3 (permalink)
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The Van - '95 Chevy Astro Cl
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That link doesn't work for me.
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At 55 mph, a 10% drag reduction translates to a 5% increase in fuel economy. At 70mph,a 10% drag reduction translates into a 4% increase -Phil Knox (Aerohead), Aerodynamics Seminar #2

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Old 04-28-2019, 10:04 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Gaptooth (retired) - '00 Honda Insight
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Gen-1 Insights
90 day: 54.26 mpg (US)

Such Fit - '07 Honda Fit Sport
90 day: 41.27 mpg (US)

Connect - '15 Ford Transit Connect XL
90 day: 24.96 mpg (US)

K-sight - '00 Honda K-sight
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I'm going to spin it in my mind that I'll have the most efficient Acura TSX engine out there, rather than a less efficient Insight. I'm going to have a car that pretty much accelerates at the limit of what's possible in a front wheel drive car without drag radials, while burning less fuel than any other vehicle on the road sans a handful of hybrids. I'm possibly going to have the most efficient car on the road ANYWHERE at this this level of acceleration, probably better even than any sport bike with similar acceleration.

Although it's only a few more days until I get it on the road, it's hard to complain when I have strong reason to believe I'll still be getting 50+ mpg, beating the fuel economy of most CVT Insights as well as that of careless or poorly maintained MT, all the while having a 0-60 time lower than some modern Lamborhginis.

Take the Diablo - 0-60 in 4.4 seconds with 8mpg city and 13mpg highway. Look at it in inverse - 25-30L/100km vs <4.5L/100km estimated. Outrageous. Economy supercar, in every sense of the phrase. Gone will be the days of 100mpg cruising, but I can't help but feel it isn't too bad a trade, to go from maybe 3L/100km to 4.5L/100km, considering how it will stack up.

~

I understand the ability to accelerate quickly is of little interest to many, and, frankly the amount of time one spends accelerating as opposed to cruising makes a swap like these a bit silly. I hope others enjoy the story at least.

Last edited by Ecky; 04-28-2019 at 11:36 AM..
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Old 04-28-2019, 05:07 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgfpro View Post
... The fuel I'm running is E98 bio ethanol from "Thunder Bolt Racing Fuel" they make fruit chips. The waste fruit juice is converted to ethanol. ...
Is it just me, or does that sound kinda badass to others, too? A daily, running E98, beating purpose built trucks on dirt racing, and then bringing home the groceries. The car has a Clark Kent and Superman personality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M_a_t_t View Post
That link doesn't work for me.
Not for me, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecky View Post
... I have strong reason to believe I'll still be getting 50+ mpg, beating the fuel economy of most CVT Insights as well as that of careless or poorly maintained MT, all the while having a 0-60 time lower than some modern Lamborhginis.
That's exactly what my OP was about. You have an ecomodder street-race car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecky View Post
.. I hope others enjoy the story at least.
I think we do.
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See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.

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Old 04-28-2019, 11:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Cibbie - '88 Honda CBR 250R
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90 day: 58.82 mpg (US)

Rarity - '06 Honda Accord EX V6
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90 day: 35.67 mpg (US)

Baby viff - '86 Honda VFR 400R
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90 day: 59.56 mpg (US)

Latios - '08 Suzuki SV650SF
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecky View Post
I'm going to have a car that pretty much accelerates at the limit of what's possible in a front wheel drive car without drag radials, while burning less fuel than any other vehicle on the road sans a handful of hybrids. I'm possibly going to have the most efficient car on the road ANYWHERE at this this level of acceleration, probably better even than any sport bike with similar acceleration.
Hate to burst your bubble, but my SV650SF is capable of a 3.5-4.0 second 0-60, AND 80(so far) MPG. Of course, my V6 accord is slower and less efficient than what your K-sight should turn out to be.

Edit:
Took it to the drag strip, looks like a 4.3 second 0-60. I could do better with a super aggressive launch and better body positioning, but 4.3 is more realistic. Fastest 1/4 mile time was a 12.587 at 105.05 MPH. I lost every race. :\
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Best trip in V6: 52.0
Best tank in V6: 46.0
Best tank in CBR: 61.3
Best tank in VFR: 62.5
Best tank in SV: 79.5

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Last edited by Daschicken; 05-25-2019 at 12:18 AM..
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Old 04-29-2019, 01:18 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daschicken View Post
... my SV650SF is capable of a 3.5-4.0 second 0-60, AND 80(so far) MPG. ...
First, congrats on the wicked-quick mosheen! And the MPG claim is important for the thread, too. Clarification: when you say it's capable of these numbers, as far as the MPG numbers go are you referencing an observed cruising MPG under perhaps ideal freeway conditions or a measured tank average? One of the cool things pgfpro accomplished (I think with a former 3-stage vtec civic and not his current talon) was a high cruising MPG under light load, while also getting lots more power in other situations. That's you? Or is 80 mpg a tank average?
__________________


See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.


Last edited by California98Civic; 04-29-2019 at 01:19 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 05-01-2019, 11:22 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Cibbie - '88 Honda CBR 250R
Motorcycle
90 day: 58.82 mpg (US)

Rarity - '06 Honda Accord EX V6
Team Honda
90 day: 35.67 mpg (US)

Baby viff - '86 Honda VFR 400R
Motorcycle
90 day: 59.56 mpg (US)

Latios - '08 Suzuki SV650SF
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90 day: 71.41 mpg (US)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by California98Civic View Post
First, congrats on the wicked-quick mosheen! And the MPG claim is important for the thread, too. Clarification: when you say it's capable of these numbers, as far as the MPG numbers go are you referencing an observed cruising MPG under perhaps ideal freeway conditions or a measured tank average? One of the cool things pgfpro accomplished (I think with a former 3-stage vtec civic and not his current talon) was a high cruising MPG under light load, while also getting lots more power in other situations. That's you? Or is 80 mpg a tank average?
Just making sure you know, the SV650SF is a motorcycle. 75 horsepower or so, 440 pounds, just a medium performance sport bike. The 80 MPG I quoted is a tank average. I do not have any other instrumentation at the moment, but someone does make a fuel economy computer for these bikes. It seems to want to hover around 75 MPG, higher requires 60 mph or slower on freeway/more back roads.

I still havenít gotten the chance to run many tanks through it yet. More will come! I actually just finished up shortening a stock exhaust and swapped that for the Yoshimura pipe it came with. May not change MPG, but it will be a whole lot cleaner with a catalytic converter.
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Best trip in V6: 52.0
Best tank in V6: 46.0
Best tank in CBR: 61.3
Best tank in VFR: 62.5
Best tank in SV: 79.5

Quote:
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You can lead a fashion-conscious horse to unusual-looking water...

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Old 05-01-2019, 04:41 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daschicken View Post
Just making sure you know, the SV650SF is a motorcycle...
Hahahaha! No, unfortunately I guess I didn't read closely enough, and no I didn't know. Lol. I did have a CB400F years ago, and I currently have other Bajaj Chetak motor scooter (not running, sadly), but I'm not as familiar with motorcycles and wasn't expecting one to be cited here.

Thanks for the correction.
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See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.

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Old 05-05-2019, 12:29 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by M_a_t_t
That link doesn't work for me.
Not for me, either
A Facebook link? You're better off for it.

To me, 'muscle car' implies a 20th century Detroit sedan that has a big honking motor and no brakes or handling. The first one was the 1961 Impala bubble-top coupe.

This was mentioned before but I can't find the thread. It's close, but the straight front axle makes it a 'gasser' not a muscle car.



Your classic car/truck might be a chrome-plated V-8 with a hybrid subsystem, I know those have been posted here at least once.

edit: Youtube wanted me to see this one too:



2nd edit: Rich Rebuilds meets Jonathan Ward.

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