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Old 10-11-2008, 09:08 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Stuck on motor dissassembly

Motor specs can be found here:
My Big Fat Baby

before shots:


I've tried disassembling it to check the coils - i'm afraid that after
about 8 months of sitting outside they may be rusted. I already
know i have to change the brushes - they are worn to almost nothing.
The problem i have is that after removing the after-market gear and
the after-market break assembly (apparently it was hooked to a cable
that would stop the motor from freely spinning after shutoff) i'm stuck.

here is the exploded view:


here's where i'm stuck:


(see the exploded view for what the part numbers are)
I can't understand why part 26 "COMMUTATOR END HEAD MACHINED" won't
come off. I've removed all bolts that attach it to part 13 "FRAME AND FIELD ASM"
(the bolts are part 8, there are 4 of them)

The brake rotor (the first 'where i'm stuck' motor pic above) appears to be held on
by a bolt and a large nut (both after market). i can't get part 4 "DRIVE END HEAD MACHINED"
off because the bolt is TACK WELDED to the large nut (about 2 inches)
I've tried channel locks and no luck. (they are bolted to the shaft)

I know that i can get both part 4 and part 26 unattached other wise
because with some work in can twist them independently of part 13.

I'm open for suggestions. i spent 2 hours trying to figure this out.

BTW - i don't need to disassemble it to replace the brushes, just
to check and repair the coils if it's needed. plus there is a
rattle (pebble?) inside that i want to fix.

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Old 10-12-2008, 05:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I found your description confusing.

Here is your first 'before shot' rotated so that the orientation of the motor in the picture matches the orientation in the exploded view.


Does that clear up or change anything for you?
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Old 10-12-2008, 05:53 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Question

Let's try it this way:


Removed brake pad assembly (A), and all bolts (B) holding brake assembly to the case.
However, at the location (D) is a bolt that is tack-welded to a nut. under the nut is some kind of a flat circular clip. under that is the brake rotor. under that is god knows. i am unable to remove this bolt/nut/clip/roter assembly. they are after market and turn with the shaft. There is also an after-market plate (K). i can get this to rotate freely from the other parts but cannot remove it with the brake roter in the way.

I can get casing section (E) to rotate freely by removing the above parts and all the bolts(C). but i cannot pull it off because the brake rotor is in the way.

After all bolts (J) and (C) are removed i can rotate the case section (F) freely. but i cannot remove it because i can't remove the case sections (G) and (E).

on the other end of the motor concerning the case section (G): i have removed the protective grill (H), all bolts (J), and the after market gear and fasteners (I). (the gear slides over and fastens to the standard gear that is in the exploded diagram.)

but i am unable to pull housing section (G) off.

1- What can be holding it section (G) on?
2- how do i get through the [welded bolt and nut] and clip and
brake rotor located at (D)?

Suggestions?

should i get a chainsaw?
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Old 10-13-2008, 09:09 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I take G in the picture and #4 in the exploded diagram to be the same part.

The diagram shows an armature fan (painted green in the image below) at the drive end of #9 - the Armature Assembly. I'm assuming that's what you're interpreting as "the standard gear that is in the exploded diagram"?


In any case, pry out the oil seal #1 visible in your 2nd and 3rd "here's where i'm stuck" pictures. Then remove the retaining ring #2 and you'll probably be able to remove G / #4 at that point. If not you'll have to remove the bearing #5 and the retaining ring #6 behind it, which could require a special tool, but lets cross that bridge if we come to it.

As to the "welded bolt and nut" end of the job. Haul it to a shop (or a friend with pneumatic tools) and have them see if a 1/2 drive impact gun and socket will knock it loose. Shouldn't cost more than $5 - might not charge you anything if they don't have to wrestle the motor out of the trunk of your car.

If an impact gun won't knock it loose, the weld will have to be cut away with a torch or die grinder. (I'd favor the die grinder - less likely to damage the armature.) Then try the impact gun again.
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Old 10-13-2008, 07:44 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I will be very surprised if you get that spot weld to break loose. I would use an electric cutoff tool with a thin blade on the tool. You are going to have to carefully cut the weld at least partially through. After you get some groove into the weld, then a air wrench might be enough to get the rest of the weld to crack along the cut line.

The other alternative which might work better, if you can get a replacement nut, is this. You can use the cutoff tool to slice through one side of the nut, as close as you can get to the thread, without cutting into the thread. Then you should be able to use a large cold steel chisel and a sledge hammer to finish breaking the nut enough that you can get the nut to come loose.
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Old 10-13-2008, 09:12 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I had some big frustrations rebuilding my forklift motor, never having done anything like that before and not knowing what I was doing.

A couple of things that I noticed working on mine are:

Yank that brake off any way you can - all the parts there are going to be useless, feel free to cut or otherwise abuse that part.

Sometimes motors have "secret screws" that you have no idea are there and wil NOT let you take it apart, but since you have the exploded diagram, you are WAY farther ahead than I ever was.

Did I miss it, or do you have a donor car yet? Not sure what you are going to cram that beast into....
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Old 10-14-2008, 01:41 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoops View Post
I will be very surprised if you get that spot weld to break loose.
You're presuming the spot weld needs to be broken in order to remove the bolt.
The original post says he tried to remove it with a channel locks. My presumption is the bolt & nut may come off as a single unit and simply needs to be busted loose.
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Old 10-14-2008, 10:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Ben Nelson:
Finances have become stable again in my household. if i recall correctly, when i quit posting in the forum is when i first lost my job on the day i was to acquire a 80-something Corolla then was rehired with a major promotion to get them through a branch office change then was told to go cluck myself once that was done because ''we can't afford you in the new budget''. oh well.

My wife has approved a savings plan that, should things not change, will grant me $600 to buy a doner vehicle in about 3 months. Likely i will try to find a generation1 Saturn to convert and this motor likely will not fit in that size vehicle. So i view this more as a learning experience and a 'take it as it comes' approach. BTW, I've been following your build thread closely. You've done a great job and i envy your talents and the quality of work you've done (in English: dammit, you bstrd, you beat me to it! Good work! )

Whoops and Test Drive:

yes, G and #4 are the same part.
No, at second glance i realize the gear is not in the exploded diagram. Infact, in the exploded diagram it almost looks like it's a female end rather than a male gear that is on my motor. perhaps a modification for the forklift production use of this motor? it does not appear to come off the shaft but i'll take another look. perhaps the oil seal ring can fit around it when it comes off.
The spot-welded nut and bolt is welded in 2 places - opposite sides of the nut/bolt. I'll take another whack at trying to get that off. the hardest part is that in trying to turn the bolt/nut is that the entire shaft turns and it's hard to brace it. i will start with a chisel and filing down those welds.

if i can get either #4/G or #26/E off then i can get to the insides. Right now I'm at the point where all 3 casing pieces are free to move independently but not free to come off.

You guys have been helpful and I'll let you know how it turns out after my next day off.

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Old 10-14-2008, 11:15 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Sorry to hear about the employment ups and downs!

I think an older Saturn coupe would make a great EV!

I was concerned about the size of your motor, because I actually had to CHOP MINE DOWN, TWICE! to make it fit in the Metro. I think that's a limitation in a front-wheel drive, transverse-mounted motor vehicle.

For a really big motor, rear-wheel drive gives you more room to work with.

Anyways, just wanted to make sure you can fit that motor into whatever you get.

If you use a front-wheel drive car with manual transaxle, make sure to measure from the center of the transmission shaft to the passenger-side wheel drive shaft. That's what limits the diameter of the motor you can use on the car.

Both the Forkenswift and Electro-Metro had to deal with that as an issue. I also had to end up going back and recutting my adapter plate because of it as well.
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Old 10-15-2008, 12:23 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaxyChicken View Post
Ben Nelson:Infact, in the exploded diagram it almost looks like it's a female end rather than a male gear that is on my motor. perhaps a modification for the forklift production use of this motor? it does not appear to come off the shaft but i'll take another look. perhaps the oil seal ring can fit around it when it comes off.
Don't know, but I'd guess the diagram shows a female spline end and the gear on your motor is just the visible end of an adapter stub shaft (with a male spline end) held in place by a roll pin (or perhaps by #6 retaining ring in the diagram. Don't see how you'll get that end apart with out prying the oil seal out of the way so you can remove #2 retaining ring.

Quote:
The spot-welded nut and bolt is welded in 2 places - opposite sides of the nut/bolt. I'll take another whack at trying to get that off. the hardest part is that in trying to turn the bolt/nut is that the entire shaft turns and it's hard to brace it. i will start with a chisel and filing down those welds.
Starting with chisel and filing is likely a huge waste of time. The nut/bolt is probably a mechanic's ad hoc field fix to replace a bolt that had an oversize head - the nut is probably just acting like a large washer. Honestly, a 1/2 pneumatic impact will almost certainly spin the bolt/nut comb loose with out a problem and no need to brace the shaft - the inertial mass of the armature will let the pneumatic impact do it's job.

In any case, good luck. Let us know how it goes.

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