Tesla Model 3

[Xist]

How about the New Green Deal? 100% renewable energy, retrofit every building, making transportation green, getting rid of cow burps, guaranteeing jobs (doing what?), free college, requiring trade partners to pay their workers wages that we consider fair, free healthcare, and guaranteed affordable housing.

So this quick, rough cost estimate — which doesn’t include all of the promises listed in the FAQ — adds up to about $6.6 trillion a year. That’s more than three times as much as the federal government collects in tax revenue, and equal to about 34 percent of the U.S.’s entire gross domestic product. And that’s assuming no cost overruns — infrastructure projects, especially in the U.S., are subject to cost bloat. Total government spending already accounts for about 38 percent of the economy, so if no other programs were cut to pay for the Green New Deal, it could mean that almost three-quarters of the economy would be spent via the government.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...s-unaffordable

A wholesale breakdown of the U.S. economy wouldn’t do much to arrest climate change, nor would it provide an enviable example to the rest of the world, upon whose emissions reductions the planet’s future actually depends.

Arizona's largest power company apparently decided that solar batteries make sense and they are seemingly committing over a billion dollars to power 200,000 homes for three to four hours after dark. https://www.azcentral.com/story/mone...id/2911299002/

There are three million homes in Arizona: https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/az

It would cost 15 billion to power every home for three to four hours after dark.

Would thirty billion be enough for Arizona's 7 million people? Then in ten years you need to replace everything?

That works out to 3 billion per year, $428 for every man, woman, and child.

"Lithium is mined on six continents. Even if the market triples, there are 185 years' worth of reserves in the ground, Deutsche Bank estimates." https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2...attery-future/

They show a chart projecting electric car sales will increase twenty-five times between 2017 and 2030. According to the AZCentral article, APS is planning on putting in 850 megawatts of battery storage, while the entire U.S. utility industry added 338 MW last year. Arizona will account for a 2.5x increase over the entire U.S. although spread out over a number of years.

Clean transportation and energy would require far more than trebling lithium consumption, but if it increased ten times it we would have enough for 55 years.

That article says cobalt is far more likely to increase in cost over time, increasing the cost of its products. It is also far more dangerous, and Musk has committed to stop using it.

I know that we have discussed multiple times and in multiple threads how much cows burp. I do not really see the Impossible Whopper fixing that.

I am always glad that I earned my Bachelor's in Spanish, but I cannot tell you any way that it has improved my life. My ex got $13,000 in debt to become a dental assistant, considered it her greatest achievement, and then worked as a rent-a-cop and at a frozen yogurt place.

Post-secondary training is great and wonderful as long as it leads to a job. If you feel the need for a PhD in Esperanto you should finance 100% of that yourself. If you want to be a teacher, a doctor, or something else where we have a huge shortage, then I think that it makes absolute sense for the government or someone to finance your education, as long as you meet their criteria.

Here is a depressing article about the working conditions in the third world: https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-...ladesh-factory

The minimum wage in Arizona is $11 an hour. How many people in third-world countries earn less than $11 a day with twelve-hour shifts in horrible conditions? How much more would our stuff cost if the people who made it had humane living conditions?

How many jobs would shift back to the U.S.--or to automation?

Yeah... healthcare...

I turned forty and have been sick three times in three months, but I spent $471.81 at urgent care and Walgreens. When I had a full-time job I paid $500 a month, so did the district, and I never used it.

Why did the district and I spend $9,000 for nothing? Why did the cost of insulin triple between 2002 and 2013 and increase 64% since then? Someone posted on Imgur that a restaurant manager could not afford insulin, began rationing it, and died. People said that insulin cost $400 per month in the U.S., but only $40 in Canada. I guess that includes both slow- and fast-acting: https://www.goodrx.com/blog/how-much...ompare-brands/

Is four hundred dollars a month to stay alive reasonable?

Bloomberg did not try to figure out guaranteed affordable housing, although it seems to be at odd with retrofitting every building in the U.S. This says that homes cost much more to build than just ten years ago: https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2018/05...ability-crisis

These are genuine problems, I do not feel the New Green Deal actually tried to fix anything. It was just politics. Let's promise the world and then blame our enemies when we don't get what we want. Senators Joe Manchin, Kyrsten Sinema, and Doug Jones, each democrats, voted against it. Everyone else voted "Present."

Politics is people picking teams and saying "Hooray for our side."

[redpoint5]

Green New Deal makes sense to children and others that don't know basic economics. It certainly would curtail CO2 emissions because that's what living in poverty and dying does.

Nobody needs subsidies for college. The whole reason it inflated in price at multiple times the inflation rate is because of subsidies. If people want to be doctors, they can take out loans like everyone else, or earn a scholarship from someone donating the money.

Post-secondary education needs an overhaul anyhow. Why do people need fancy buildings to meet? Why do they need expensive professors to repeat the same lectures every quarter? Internet is already a superior learning tool. Pay the top professor in an area to give the lecture 1 time and record it. Provide that lecture dirt cheap to whoever wants to watch it.

The only reason someone would need to meet in a building is to take an exam.

People don't have the right to live in the place they desire. If it's unaffordable, they either need to take on roommates to afford it, or move to a less expensive place. Every government intervention that attempts to address housing affordability makes the situation worse, much worse.

Xist- Just realized you posted all this in the Tesla thread, which I'm not sure what has to do with anything.

[Xist]

You said that liberals had better ideas. Those are some of the loudest ideas being pushed right now.

I wish that I had been as concise as you. I read through it several times and that was the best that I could do.

Good points.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Xist

You said that liberals had better ideas. Those are some of the loudest ideas being pushed right now.

Not better ideas; more ideas. Most ideas are terrible and fail. A few work out well.

The Green New Deal is a typical idea in that it's terrible. We've got to discuss it to figure out why it's terrible. It ignores the fundamental ways in which the economy and society works. It's too disruptive to the way things currently work without specifically defining how we'd be better off with all the hassle.

[Xist]

How about funding?

[freebeard]

How about the New Green Deal?

DOA. Next question?

How about funding?

NSTAAFL. Next?

[JSH]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Tesla is not doing things like most other car makers. They use the actual year a car is manufactured - for its model year.

That only works if you don’t redesign your vehicles. Image Toyota trying to sell the 2018 Toyota RAV4 next to the 2019 RAV4 and calling both a 2018. It would be mass confusion.

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

They have improved / fixed things as needed; not waiting for the "next model year".

I work for one of the oldest auto manufacturers in the world. I’ve been involved with 533 changes so far this year, none are tied to a model year change. (That is just parts I have responsibility for)

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

It is unlikely that they will make wholesale changes - making a design change for the sake of change - is exactly what they WON'T do.

Even if you never make a change, you still have to build replacement tooling. Tooling wears out and if a company is going to spend the capital to build a new tool it only makes sense to make changes while they are at it.

Then there is the basic fact that most people don’t want to buy a new car that looks just like their old car. They want something new that looks new. The 3 year refresh / 6 year redesign cycle is there for a reason. Visually changing the look of the vehicle every 3 years lines up with the traditional length of leases and loans.

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

I hope that other car makers will follow the principles that Tesla has. Aerodynamics should drive the design - not stylists.

There a many ways to hit the same drag coefficient. The Prius and S-Class both have a drag coefficient of 0.24

[NeilBlanchard]

Originally Posted by JSH

That only works if you don’t redesign your vehicles. Image Toyota trying to sell the 2018 Toyota RAV4 next to the 2019 RAV4 and calling both a 2018. It would be mass confusion.

The model year has nothing to do with design cycle. What IS confusing is buying a 2020 on January 1st 2019.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by JSH

That only works if you don’t redesign your vehicles. Image Toyota trying to sell the 2018 Toyota RAV4 next to the 2019 RAV4 and calling both a 2018. It would be mass confusion.

...Then there is the basic fact that most people don’t want to buy a new car that looks just like their old car. They want something new that looks new. The 3 year refresh / 6 year redesign cycle is there for a reason. Visually changing the look of the vehicle every 3 years lines up with the traditional length of leases and loans.

I don't like tying the model to a year. Rather, it should be referred to as Mode/Generation, like a Prius Mark IV. The year would be the year of manufacture.

I've got a Dodge Ram\Cummins that is designated as a 1998.5 because mid-year they went from a mechanical fuel pump to electric. It's a significant change. Did the change happen exactly in June? There's got to be a better way to differentiate significant changes. Perhaps something like Mark 4.0, 4.1, 4.2 to show significant differences.

Good point about refreshes aligning with lease duration.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Likewise, I cringe when people call Internet 'the internet'.

Hospital, the hospital