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Old 04-06-2019, 05:59 PM   #1041 (permalink)
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From source: "Tesla’s Model S and Model X sales crashed by around 50% during the first quarter. One possible explanation is that buyers are waiting for an anticipated hardware upgrade and a possible design refresh. Other big reasons include the end of the full $7500 tax credit in the US and cannibalization (especially of the Model S) by the Model 3."
"We were aware that Model 3 deliveries would be down this quarter due to the market introduction in Europe and China, but Model S and Model X numbers are a bigger surprise – and possibly a worrying sign for Tesla’s high margin product line."

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Old 04-07-2019, 05:34 AM   #1042 (permalink)
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The problem with the Model S and X is while they are larger, they are hardly any faster than a much cheaper Model 3, nor do they have the same range, charge as fast, and now they even lag in some tech stuff.

Tesla really needs to upgrade the S and X to give them their status back.
At least they get better motors: https://electrek.co/2019/04/05/tesla...ectric-motors/

Dumping the induction motor Nikola Tesla invented for a 3-phase AC Halbach array permanent magnet reluctance motor as used in the Model 3...
Tesla now is a little bit less tied to the inventor it derived its name from.

So the S and X are probably going to have more range and probably slightly better performance due to the higher efficiency of this motor.
This won't change their fate though, unless Tesla does something drastic like giving them the guts of the new Roadster.
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:55 PM   #1043 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
Amazon has been profitable since 2009. Their recent spike in profits is from their AWS division. The retail business is still basically break-even. That is not surprising as retail has VERY low margins, lower than even making cars.
In that case it took Amazon 15 years to be profitable (founded in 1994).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_(company)

Which is in line with Tesla (founded in 2003).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla,_Inc.
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:59 PM   #1044 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
The problem with the Model S and X is while they are larger, they are hardly any faster than a much cheaper Model 3, nor do they have the same range, charge as fast, and now they even lag in some tech stuff.

Tesla really needs to upgrade the S and X to give them their status back.
At least they get better motors: https://electrek.co/2019/04/05/tesla...ectric-motors/

Dumping the induction motor Nikola Tesla invented for a 3-phase AC Halbach array permanent magnet reluctance motor as used in the Model 3...
Tesla now is a little bit less tied to the inventor it derived its name from.

So the S and X are probably going to have more range and probably slightly better performance due to the higher efficiency of this motor.
This won't change their fate though, unless Tesla does something drastic like giving them the guts of the new Roadster.
I'm guessing Tesla's redoing the S/X right now, and has been since January of this year. While it's possible the layoffs, reduction in work hours for the S/X lines, S/X prices increases, all at the beginning of the quarter, followed by lower SX sales at the end were coincidence, I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla was using this time to upgrade the S/X lines and design.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/23/tesl...roduction.html

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Old 04-07-2019, 11:47 PM   #1045 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roflwaffle View Post
I'm guessing Tesla's redoing the S/X right now, and has been since January of this year. While it's possible the layoffs, reduction in work hours for the S/X lines, S/X prices increases, all at the beginning of the quarter, followed by lower SX sales at the end were coincidence, I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla was using this time to upgrade the S/X lines and design.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/23/tesl...roduction.html
If Tesla started a S/X refresh in January it won’t go on sale before 2021 at the earliest.
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Old 04-08-2019, 03:43 AM   #1046 (permalink)
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A complete redesign, yes.
But Tesla keeps improving their cars all the time. While the focus has been on the Model 3 it will shift to the S and X now these need some TLC to stay relevant.
The new motors will be implemented shortly, if they aren't already. I expect a bigger pack (120 kWh?) with different cells and >250 kW charging soon.

Tesla's focus has shifted towards their solar and power storage business too, and rightly so; crude goes for over $60 a barrel lately so alternative power got more relevant.
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Old 04-08-2019, 06:41 PM   #1047 (permalink)
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Quote:
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This is completely off topic, but I hate when manufacturers and bloggers refer to car models with no definite articles. Tesla doesn't manufacture Model 3; it manufactures the Model 3.
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Old 04-08-2019, 08:18 PM   #1048 (permalink)
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Likewise, I cringe when people call Internet 'the internet'.
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Old 04-09-2019, 05:26 PM   #1049 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Likewise, I cringe when people call Internet 'the internet'.
You read it on the internet? I saw something about it on the cable.
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Old 04-09-2019, 05:52 PM   #1050 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
A complete redesign, yes.
But Tesla keeps improving their cars all the time. While the focus has been on the Model 3 it will shift to the S and X now these need some TLC to stay relevant.
The new motors will be implemented shortly, if they aren't already. I expect a bigger pack (120 kWh?) with different cells and >250 kW charging soon.

Tesla's focus has shifted towards their solar and power storage business too, and rightly so; crude goes for over $60 a barrel lately so alternative power got more relevant.
A complete redesign would take 3-4 years.

Generally design work on a refresh starts very shortly after a model is put into production. It has to stay on the normal design cycle of a mid-cycle refresh after 3 years and a redesign every 6.

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