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Old 03-29-2018, 11:04 AM   #311 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
I'll probably never own a Tesla, but it would be nice to see the company succeed.

It sure seems like they're in a perfect storm of bad circumstances: Model 3 "hell"; the Model X fatality within days of the Uber fatality (if it's shown that autopilot was engaged, they're in big trouble); burning through cash; investors getting skittish.
This deserves its own thread; something about the future of automobile technology being at a critical juncture.

The images of that Model X crash are downright frightening, and prompted me to ask how often do ICE cars catch fire in accidents, vs. how often Tesla/electrics catch fire? Tesla's stock/bond valuations have been in freefall since the accident, and the news isn't getting better -- it's getting worse.

And the Uber pedestrian death seems to be pointing towards a foolish race to be first to market with autonomous driving technology. Turning off the very software that controls autonomous crash avoidance? Who in their right mind does that?

I think the next few weeks and months are going to be critical for the futures of Tesla (although not electric cars in general) and autonomous vehicles.

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Old 03-29-2018, 12:42 PM   #312 (permalink)
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Some of this bad press for Tesla and Uber is Koch brothers and traditional auto maker driven. Parts of it is literally fake news.
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Old 03-29-2018, 03:42 PM   #313 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdb View Post
This deserves its own thread; something about the future of automobile technology being at a critical juncture.

The images of that Model X crash are downright frightening, and prompted me to ask how often do ICE cars catch fire in accidents, vs. how often Tesla/electrics catch fire? Tesla's stock/bond valuations have been in freefall since the accident, and the news isn't getting better -- it's getting worse.

And the Uber pedestrian death seems to be pointing towards a foolish race to be first to market with autonomous driving technology. Turning off the very software that controls autonomous crash avoidance? Who in their right mind does that?

I think the next few weeks and months are going to be critical for the futures of Tesla (although not electric cars in general) and autonomous vehicles.
I haven't researched the fires per miles driven and compared, but my worthless anecdotal evidence is I have seen zero EV fires in my lifetime and many ICE fires. The most horrific was a couple summers ago on I-5 where I was among the first to arrive at the crash, and the driver was killed. It stopped traffic for over 3hrs on a 100 degree day.

http://youtu.be/69qNnUTh7Fk

I've also contained a fire caused by an engulfed Durango on a forest road. It was spreading to the vegetation and trees while fire crews took over an hour to make it to the site.

Was the autopilot disabled in the Uber crash?

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Originally Posted by aerostealth View Post
Some of this bad press for Tesla and Uber is Koch brothers and traditional auto maker driven. Parts of it is literally fake news.
I believe the Koch brothers mean well for the citizens of the US, but they are old (more rigid thinking) and have some bad ideas. I can get behind eliminating subsidies, but won't resort to misrepresenting a technology in pursuit of it. It's unclear if they really believe EVs are worse than ICE vehicles for the environment, or if they are intentionally being deceptive.

To that end, I would draw a distinction between fake news and false news. There are plenty who would knowingly supply bad information to push an agenda, and there are those who are biased against something and do not properly vett the information they cite to support their claim.

All that said, I tend to believe Tesla is in a precarious place as they have failed to meet volume targets and have the $7,500 tax credit expiration looming.
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Old 03-30-2018, 02:08 AM   #314 (permalink)
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The much rumored death of Tesla is premature to say the least.As for the Koch brothers they are bad news for America and have been damaging this country for decades. They should be locked up. I can drive my EV 15 miles on just the electricity it takes to refine a gallon of gasoline. That tells a story to anyone willing to really listen.
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Old 03-30-2018, 11:43 AM   #315 (permalink)
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As for the Koch brothers they are bad news for America and have been damaging this country for decades. They should be locked up.
How is the Koch family bad for America considering they have built among the biggest corporations, employ many people, and provide products and services that consumers demand? Generally their activism is in support of liberty, which means anti-fascism (antifa). I have not read of any illegal activity they have been involved in, so what would be the basis of locking them up?

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Old 03-30-2018, 02:10 PM   #316 (permalink)
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A disinformation campaign that harms person's and their property is culpable in law. Their willful efforts have harmed millions and potentially will harm billions in the near future. I will not say more on this subject, but I would support their indictment and trial.
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Old 03-30-2018, 04:01 PM   #317 (permalink)
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A disinformation campaign that harms person's and their property is culpable in law. Their willful efforts have harmed millions and potentially will harm billions in the near future. I will not say more on this subject, but I would support their indictment and trial.
For some reason I thought this thread was in the lounge, which is where continued discussion about this should live, in its own thread.

I will say that propagating false information is not illegal, even if it is intentionally misleading. I'm not sure what disinformation you refer to, but if it has to do with burning fossil fuels, it's undeniable that exploiting petroleum products has been a massive net positive for humanity, and continues to be despite the associated negative externalities.

Tesla has some serious obstacles to overcome to remaining viable. One of which is the continued, relatively cheap price of fuel, and the continued relative expense and shortcomings of battery technology.

I wonder why they choose to stick with cylindrical cells when all other manufacturers seem to go with prismatic? I can't see cylindrical cells being the future of battery technology.
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Old 03-30-2018, 04:07 PM   #318 (permalink)
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Old 03-30-2018, 10:04 PM   #319 (permalink)
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Knowingly propagating information you know to be false is illegal. Ask the tobacco industry. If climate change denialism culminates in the death and injury of multitudes of people the fossil fuel I did try and their media coconspirators can be held criminally liable.
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Old 03-30-2018, 11:47 PM   #320 (permalink)
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Maybe, unless you're a news agency:

It's Official! News Media Can Legally Lie - disinformation

We used to lie to others. Now we can lie to ourselves:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14...-to-americans/

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