Tesla Model 3

[Fat Charlie]

Originally Posted by freebeard

The PowerWall establishes an upper bound on the market.

Just because you can get the same effect for yourself for less money doesn't make it a rip off. Tesla sells well designed, well made (yes) products that perform very well. They're premium products priced for early adopters.

They raised the price of the power wall this year, I'm going to guess it wasn't because the cost of battery production but because of the line of customers trying to throw money at them. Market pricing doesn't feel good to the little guy, but that doesn't make it a rip off.

[oil pan 4]

Getting less for more money is definition of being ripped off.
The only reason the power wall is successful is because it has an advertising campaign.
Advertising is the art of calculated lieing.
Outback and schnider don't have a spokes person or advertising.
So obviously people who don't know anything about these kinds of things are going to buy the tesla just because it's the only name they know.

All tesla did was make a UPS with a really big battery.
But I'm sure people are thinking "but you can put solar panels on it". Well that's called a hybrid inverter, yeah radian and schnider have had that since at least the late 1990s. Just the inverter and batteries it acts like a UPS, add solar now it's a hybrid inverter.
Even portable UPS units that can accept external DC power have been around for decades.
So tesla invented a hybrid inverter that comes with a big battery and pretends like they are the first company to ever offer anything like that.
This is why they fail to impress me.

[redpoint5]

It does surprise me that the age of internet did not result in the decline of marketing effectiveness. You'd think that having the answer to any question you have at your fingertips would mean people research prior to purchase so that they are informed, but yet we rely on marketing to inform us, and experts to decide everything for us.

I do miss the old advertisements where they would describe the features of the product they are selling. Nowadays, a car commercial shows a CG version of a car dancing to music, then the commercial ends, and we all feel dumber afterwards.

[oil pan 4]

I posted something on face book about how my nissan leaf has a simple single gear transaxle and that nissan recommends the oil get changed at 110,000 miles.
The useful idiots on fb felt they needed to inform me that electric vehicles don't have transmissions and don't need oil.
Yes people are idiots.

[ThermionicScott]

That's the tragic thing about the Internet -- we all hoped it would help stamp out ignorance and misinformation. Instead, it has become a repository for junk, and a person can find whatever they need to bolster their preconceived notions.

[NeilBlanchard]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

I would rather have generators, UPS and a dedicated off grid power. No power wall.
I could do a lot more with $5,900 than what a power wall gives me.

A generator is not actually off the grid, in the strict sense. Unless you are making your own fuel.

[Fat Charlie]

Great points, except that Tesla doesn't advertise. The overall plan has been to rake in money from high income early adopters to subsidize more widespread production at a lower price point. They're already producing their lower priced car, even if they haven't caught up enough with demand to make the lower end versions of that model.

You're always going to pay more if you don't roll your own and you're always going to pay more if you have to be the first on the block to have one. That's your own personal priorities, not a rip off.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

A generator is not actually off the grid, in the strict sense. Unless you are making your own fuel.

Yeah, but then nothing is off-grid. You wouldn't say that someone is "on-grid" because they didn't make their own solar panels from minerals they mined from the earth using shovels they forged themselves from other minerals they mined...

Off grid just means you don't have a meter and electrical service that is connected to the utility.

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

A generator is not actually off the grid, in the strict sense. Unless you are making your own fuel.

If I were to go off grid I would want some where around 97 to 100% of my electrical power to come from solar panels and thermoelectric.
Liquid fuels would be for AC generator power and DC generator power needed for excessive cloudy days, run my big welder, 5hp air compressor and plasma cutter, fuel and oil for chain saw. Propane for space heating when no one is home or awake to stoke the wood stoves.

I have already proven I can run my 2 smaller welders and other small tools off solar power.
Somethings like my plasma cutter I could probably run it of solar inverter power but the compressed air would likely need to come from my gasoline fuelled air compressor.
My spot welder may need generator power.

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Yeah, but then nothing is off-grid. You wouldn't say that someone is "on-grid" because they didn't make their own solar panels from minerals they mined from the earth using shovels they forged themselves from other minerals they mined...

Off grid just means you don't have a meter and electrical service that is connected to the utility.

Yeah the only guys who are really of grid in the US are the ones who live in a cabin in the woods and get buy with an ax, a rifle and shovel. Don't even use a chain saw.