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Old 03-18-2019, 08:17 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
Have you ever driven a Tesla?

I've driven a Zoe and I know I want an EV since then. And the Zoe is probably the least attractive of them all.
Very few people who have driven a Tesla end up not wanting one.
The demand will be there. The more there are out on the streets, the faster it will grow.
Have you ever driven a Corvette? Very few people who have driven a Corvette end up not wanting one.

The problem isn't the wanting; it's the wanting at that price point and with the given limitations in charging, range and refueling time.

I test drove a Leaf in 2011 and liked it, but not enough to spend $36k on it. I've also test driven a Bolt and was thoroughly impressed. It's still not worth $36k. As the tax incentives run out on the major players in the US, so too will the sales.

The Koreans will produce compliance-like numbers of their EVs, so we'll be supply constrained there.

We're just not there yet. People like peppy acceleration and charging at home, but not at the current prices, with the current limitations, and many people don't have access to charging at home.

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Old 03-18-2019, 11:40 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
Have you ever driven a Tesla?

I've driven a Zoe and I know I want an EV since then. And the Zoe is probably the least attractive of them all.
Very few people who have driven a Tesla end up not wanting one.
The demand will be there. The more there are out on the streets, the faster it will grow.
There are needs and then there are wants. People usually buy cars for both reasons. But from what I can tell, the majority of people buying EV's, especially Teslas, are buying them primarily for wants, not needs. Those people are called enthusiasts. Not everyone is an enthusiast.

Believe me, I have tried time and time again to figure out how I could benefit from owning an EV. I even bought one once, but ended up selling it. At this point it's a bad choice for me. It's impractical. Too much buck for so little bang. An expensive yard ornament.

Range is lower. "Refueling" times are longer. Places to "refuel" are still very sparse in comparison. Price is higher. Reliability is less than average.

Now I know that the car doesn't have to be perfect. But what are the trade offs? "Fuel is cheaper" and "it's better for the environment." The second is a very good reason. But work, family and other goals are also important.

"Sorry Honey. But I just spent the family nest egg and the kids' college funds so I could buy a car that only goes a couple hundred miles. And if you do go that far then you have to charge it for several minutes or hours and many places still don't even have a place you can do that. So if we want to go see your mother, we'll have to take the bus."

Sure, I'd love to own a Tesla. But it makes no sense to do it unless I were just trying to fulfill my wants and put my needs to the side.
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Old 03-19-2019, 04:14 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
Have you ever driven a Corvette? Very few people who have driven a Corvette end up not wanting one.

The problem isn't the wanting; it's the wanting at that price point and with the given limitations in charging, range and refueling time.

I test drove a Leaf in 2011 and liked it, but not enough to spend $36k on it. I've also test driven a Bolt and was thoroughly impressed. It's still not worth $36k. As the tax incentives run out on the major players in the US, so too will the sales.

The Koreans will produce compliance-like numbers of their EVs, so we'll be supply constrained there.

We're just not there yet. People like peppy acceleration and charging at home, but not at the current prices, with the current limitations, and many people don't have access to charging at home.
I have not driven a Corvette. I have driven several Subaru WRX though, including a heavily tuned one that did 0-60 in under 4 seconds.
I also rode several performance bikes, like a CBR 1000 F. The WRX could not keep up with that of course. It wasn't the hardest accelerating bike I had though - that was my bare stripped ST 1100, due to its long wheel base and relatively short first gear. 0-50 mph in 1.5 seconds... but the rear tire needed to be hot!

All of those make a great howl of getting up to power. All need to be in the right gear etc. You need a big heart to corner a bike at the limit.

I want the power but not the noise. I suffer from tinnitus and even my Insight is more noisy than I like; after long trips my ears do ring harder.

Oh, and Tesla IS a software company (among others). In the future all cars will be computers on wheels. Just like phones, it isn't only the specs that make it good; most of all it is the software.

It is true that many don't have home nor destination charging, but we're a long way from EV domination. Many do and could use EV's.
Then, with Model 3s now capable of taking 250 kW charge, even being dependent on superchargers isn't that much of a problem anymore.
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:36 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Do they have any other "Y" models built? Might have seen a gray one yesterday (being chased by another tesla) which was a foot taller and had a hatch. Looks like a kia minivan except for the T logo.
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Old 03-19-2019, 11:30 AM   #65 (permalink)
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Hmm. Kia minivans have a pretty much rectangular window between the C and D pillar, the shown Model Y does not, but did the car you see have it?
Then Tesla would indeed have something coming?
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Old 03-19-2019, 01:13 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Well I watched the entire Y release party even though very little was about the Y. Was that guy up front Musk? I would say he is way to creepy to be a pitch man. Anyway, I don't see how the Y is an SUV. It is clearly a crossover. The X which is supposed to be the crossover seems more like an SUV but I'd like to see how any of them line up off road compared to say a Rav4 or the new Forester. Maybe they compare better to an Audi Q7 or a M class Benz but they do pretty well off road. Not that off road is what buyers are looking for, but what separates the SUVs from the crossovers. The Y seems more like a Lincoln MKT.
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Old 03-19-2019, 01:39 PM   #67 (permalink)
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There are plenty of videos online showing various Tesla models in snow/rugged conditions. They seem to do quite well, though I'd be surprised if they do as well as a Forester.

I take my Prius up logging roads that most people wouldn't go up in their RAV4. Not that the Prius is excellent off road, but hardly anyone needs more capability than it.
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Old 03-19-2019, 02:11 PM   #68 (permalink)
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There are plenty of videos online showing various Tesla models in snow/rugged conditions. They seem to do quite well, though I'd be surprised if they do as well as a Forester.

I take my Prius up logging roads that most people wouldn't go up in their RAV4. Not that the Prius is excellent off road, but hardly anyone needs more capability than it.
The difference is paying $60,000 and knowing all those low center of mass batteries are kind of low hanging fruit for damage. An engine oil pan or transmission pan is a smaller target and easier to protect, other parts of an normal SUV can dent and bend without total failure. What happens when a Li-ion cell takes a dent? Bad things from what I understand. Basically I don't think it is anywhere near an SUV, and a Dodge Journey at best. Do you know if the dual motors actually put power to all 4 tires if needed? Or is it like 2 open diffs?

As far as your Pruis off road, not that you abuse it, but I remember renting a Jeep once on vacation and getting back into this great isolated beach on a really bad boulder filled road only to find a rental Neon parked there as well. It's all about momentum and somebody else's car on some roads LOL!
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Old 03-19-2019, 02:28 PM   #69 (permalink)
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CleanTechnica lined up the wheels of the Y and 3 to estimate its dimensions...
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/03/18...tesla-model-3/

it is bigger. Not just taller, but definitely longer too.
Quote:
One point of interest is that — judging by the starting point of the front windshield — the Model Y’s passenger compartment appears to begin around 4 inches (100 mm) further forward than the Model 3. That obviously further helps the interior space.
The doors are further forward too.
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Old 03-19-2019, 02:47 PM   #70 (permalink)
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I think the relative lack of fires in EVs speaks for itself. This gif speaks for the Model S.





I don't know what the Tesla differential looks like, or how it manages tire slip.

Regarding my Prius, I take the rough roads slow, but I'll scrape the frame from time to time. No big deal except occasionally I'll have to repair the plastic undertray. Back in when I used to offroad my Subaru Legacy, I'd use momentum all the time. Never had to fix a thing on that car for all 240,000 miles of life.

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