TopGear.com America high mpg project (regeared, aeromodded diesel Rabbit)

[MetroMPG]

Ah, but don't forget one of their 3 goals was 0-60 in 7 seconds.

Without that aim, they would have had to spice up the project in some other Top Gear way, likely involving the Grand Canyon, pyrotechnics, and rocket motors.

[bennelson]

Yes, of course the Top Gear guys have to have insane speed or accceleration, but for a typical Ecomodder, I would imagine that similar specs, with the exception of the 0-60 times could be done for SIGNIFICANTLY less money.

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by bennelson

Yes, of course the Top Gear guys have to have insane speed or accceleration, but for a typical Ecomodder, I would imagine that similar specs, with the exception of the 0-60 times could be done for SIGNIFICANTLY less money.

Even the 0-60 time could've been done for way less money. Anyway...

<rant>A VNT/manifold from a TDI, a Turbo IP, an intercooler, and all those hoses/lines/fittings runs ~$1000 and is good for 0-60 in ~8.5s with a bit of (free) pump modding. This was with a stock FN trans AFAIK, so going with a GP trans with a 3.67 FD would allow for ~0-30mph, a .5s shift, then 0-60mph in 2nd with RE-92s, instead of two shifts with the FN, and a 80% slip kit for another $100, would probably get the 0-60 time down to below 8s. Some more pump work is a couple hundred for a DIY'er, and would probably drop the 0-60 to 7s, unless a VNT15 couldn't support the ~120hp needed, in which case a VNT17 is only a few hundred more. Anyway, we're looking at ~7-8s 0-60 for ~$1000-1500 with more DIY work, but way less cash, ~$6000 less at least. Then we can spend a hundred or few more on a decent Al body pan/diffuser and a pair of a-pillar fairings instead of that bashing the car and smothering it with crap in the first place.</rant>

I'm thinking $3000 would get something that's as fast give or take a half second, and is within ~5-10mpg, provided of course the mpg figures were correct. One gallon fills aren't exactly reliable...

[donee]

Hi All,

A little late to the party here on this one.

So what is the trick? A 1980 Rabbit Diesel does not need to meet the same emissions as a 2009 Diesel car. Indeed, they said that to be registered in CA, they did not even need to take the car in for an emissions test, even tho its 29 years old. What does emissions that have todo with it? It means they can increase the effective compression ratio into the NOX generating stratosphere. Which they did with the turbo/tuning. So, this is just not a practical solution for any vehicle manufacturer - its just a loophole in the law that the privateer can exploit. Make it meet the T2B5 and crashworthyness and what you got is a 40 some mpg highway car 35 mpg city car. Just like 2009 VW TDI's.

Not sure what that 83 mpg was driven as. If its highway, its matching the Prius performance, per unit fuel energy (cost?). 83/1.13 is 74 mpg, which is about what Wayne Gerdes did, not for 70 miles, but 700 miles highway trip from Chicago to NYC last spring for the CBS morning show, in a Prius.

Love that creative accounting - car shell $0. Enron would be proud Hmm. Not unless it was stored out in the desert near Tucson for 25 years. Rust repair would be significant.

Finally, what I want to know is when are they going to take it out in the desert and let somebody fill it with 50 caliber machine gun bullet holes!!!! In case anybody reading does not catch the reference - that is what Top Gear did to a Prius.

[ChrstphrR]

Why does my old car, or their old car, or ANYONE's older car have to meet 2009 standards when they're not built for that year? Because you says so?

Reeks of diesel envy from the gas-electric hybrid crowd, to me.

[bwilson4web]

Originally Posted by ChrstphrR

. . .
Reeks of diesel envy from the gas-electric hybrid crowd, to me.

Not really. The EPA number for the Jetta TDI are well known and even the 10 manual and 17 automatic transmission Jetta TDI owners are reporting 39.6 and 40.4 MPG. The 104 Prius owners in 2008 reported 46.0 MPG.

Mostly we're amused that anyone would think any of these stunts are effective marketing to Prius owners:

• Guinness Book of Records - 2008 driving stunt
• GreenHuman - 2009 driving stunt
• Re-engined 1980s Rabbit stunt

If someone wants to own a diesel, good for them. But if a diesel sales-critter wants a Prius owner to trade-in their Prius ... don't hold your breath.

Bob Wilson

[donee]

Hi Chris,

Well, for one reason that eventually those cars will rust out and crash allot sooner than the 2009 cars.

I will be the first to tell anyone I do not like Top Gear. I do not like what they do on the show, and I do not like this phony project being put up as a way for the average American to use less fuel. It is what it is. Its is a way for capable mechanics to put sweat equity into a car and get a good result for himself. It may even be a new formula for amatuer racing, say on 100 percent bio-diesel.

But , as soon as this is done for somebody else, for use on the public roads, there is a whole world of issues that cut into the mileage equation.

And I still think that Top Gear needs to take it out in the desert and fill it with 50 caliber machine-gun bullets to avoid being called hypocrits.

[Clev]

Originally Posted by donee

Hi Chris,

Well, for one reason that eventually those cars will rust out and crash allot sooner than the 2009 cars.

I will be the first to tell anyone I do not like Top Gear. I do not like what they do on the show, and I do not like this phony project being put up as a way for the average American to use less fuel. It is what it is. Its is a way for capable mechanics to put sweat equity into a car and get a good result for himself. It may even be a new formula for amatuer racing, say on 100 percent bio-diesel.

But , as soon as this is done for somebody else, for use on the public roads, there is a whole world of issues that cut into the mileage equation.

And I still think that Top Gear needs to take it out in the desert and fill it with 50 caliber machine-gun bullets to avoid being called hypocrits.

I think the point is that if they can take a random small car, shoehorn in a way-too-big engine and get 7 seconds and 70 mpg for under $7k, Ford should be able to do the same for less than, say, the $1 billion that the last Explorer facelift cost. Plus, like a lot of old-fashioned builds, it's a fun challenge.

Remember also that Top Gear America are not that same people as Top Gear. These are car guys formerly of American car magazines like Sport Compact Car. They don't have Jeremy Clarkson to push the editorial direction into complete fantasy like Top Gear did on their evaluation of the Tesla. (Jared, in fact, has done some photos FOR Tesla.)

[donee]

Hi Clev,

Right. But, in the real world Ford has to adhere to regulations which impacts mileage and NOX emissions. This is why newer US compliant TDI's are not reaching the Prius level, even though thermodynamically its possible at high legal speeds on the open interstate. And its good people play with things, on a amatuer basis. Because sooner or later somebody may get the idea how to do the practical, cost effective 50 % efficient HCCI engine, which may be the prime-mover of the 2020 Ford Fusion. And earn a 6 figure salary honorably bringing it to the general public.

Ok on Top Gear America. I wish them the best. Jeremy and presumably what he did on the Top Gear BBC is what I have a problem with.

[Clev]

Originally Posted by donee

Hi Clev,

Right. But, in the real world Ford has to adhere to regulations which impacts mileage and NOX emissions. This is why newer US compliant TDI's are not reaching the Prius level, even though thermodynamically its possible at high legal speeds on the open interstate.

The TGA project car uses a recent TDi engine. If it achieves its goals in a 1,900 pound Rabbit, VW (and presumably others) should also be able to achieve it in a safer 2,200 pound Polo-sized car, perhaps at 8 or 9 seconds to 60 (still very good for the size/price class.)