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Old 05-22-2008, 11:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Trying to figure out the budget for a S-10 EV project

I am attempting to guess at what the parts will cost to do a EV conversion. I know that they aren't cheap, but I want to try and cut out unnecessary things. And I have no clue on what I am going to do about batteries yet. But, I put in a guess.

I got the initial price list from here and took some guesses at what I was going to need or not need. http://www.evadc.org/build_costs.html

I have a bunch of tools from working on my own car and doing other hobbies. I may also be able to borrow some from other people when needed.

Warp9 DC 9" motor $1,700.00
Adaptor plate and hub 750
Motor mount 137.5
Curtis-PMC1221B motor controller 750
Throttle controller 60
Main contactor 130
Main circuit breaker 110
DC/DC Converter 420
Voltmeter 48
Ammeter 48
Onboard battery charger (Do I need this onboard? I will only recharge at home) 550
Charger interlock relay 15
50 ft 2/0 welding cable 180
Cable lugs 144
Shrink tubing 5
Vacuum brake system 205
Heating system (I plan on using a space heater that runs only in the garage) 25
Electric wire and connectors 170
Batteries1000
"Convert It" Manual 25
Hardware 300
Tools and supplies 100
Paint and supplies 100
Angle iron 50
Welding services 450
Flywheel resurfacing (or should I get a new lightweight one?) 55

Total $7,527.50


So, what costs could I change? Which ones aren't needed?

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Old 05-23-2008, 12:03 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Are you stuck on the idea of doing your own conversion?

As for cost savings, one often repeated bit of advice on the EVDL is to buy someone else's - you'll almost always end up paying less than if you build it yourself.

EG: electric trucks for sale...
http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpost...=13&clearoff=1
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Old 05-23-2008, 12:19 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I haven't made any commitment yet. So, if I find the perfect one that is on sale (and close to me), I would buy it. However, I would think that would be a long shot. Plus, I would probably have to pay sales tax on the full price (Although I'm supposed to pay on internet orders )


This weekend, I'll have to do some shopping to see if I can find better prices and write down where I found these prices. And I'll also have to see if getting a kit would save money (it would save some shipping costs)

http://www.cloudelectric.com/inc/sdetail/1992

I also found this price list from 2005:
http://peakoil.com/fortopic9721.html

Quote:

Pickup Truck example:

Third, lets model a decent range pickup truck like a Chevy S10 built for 40-50 miles highway range to 80% discharge with flooded lead acid batteries. It will be able to hit 85 mph, 0-60 about 15 seconds with more powerful controller and 0-30 mph faster than a gas S10 so about a normal performing vehicle. The power will be limited by the batteries. However, it’s pulling torque will be extraordinary, easily capable of pulling stumps out of the ground and for towing. The batteries would be setup in a single string of 156V. The charge time would be approximately 8 hours from a 110V outlet, 3 hours from a 220V outlet.

-WarP 9'' series DC motor x1 $1,395
-Trojan T-105 6V flooded lead acid battery x26 $1,430
-Godzilla Controller(72-156V DC, 1,000 amp max) x1 $1,950
-Russco SC 50-240 Charger(5000 watts) x1 $1090
-CC Power Electronics 200W DC-DC converter(Headlights, wipers, radio, ect.) x2 $700
-Steel for battery racks $100
-Battery Cable $100
-EV200AAANA contactors x1 $75
-L25S-500 Littlefuse Safety Fuse(250 V, 500 amp) x3 $120
-Curtis Potbox(To control acceleration) x1 $75
-E-Meter x1 $235
-Solid-State Ceramic Heater Core x1 $75
-Adaptor Plate x1 $1000
-Miscellaneous components(Heat shrink tubing, ect.) $800

Total cost: $9,245, again, all your own labor not tallied in price, except for labor for adaptor plate, and no inclusion of the cost of the truck itself.

Again, time for the cost analysis:

The flooded battery pack would last you about 36,500 miles or so with 730 cycles to 80% discharge if, or up to 5 years or so, whichever comes first. $1430 for 36,500 miles life is a battery pack cost of $.0391 per mile. At $.08 per kWh of electricity achieving 300 wh/mile efficiency with a 75% charger efficiency and 70% battery efficiency, with $.005 per mile maintenance, total cost to operate comes out to $.08981 per mile.

Total cost of electric S10 per mile is $.08981
Total cost of gasoline Civic per mile is $.11666 (@ $2/gal...Ha)

This truck going 50 miles a day would be going over 18,000 miles per year. Cut the depth of discharge of the batteries significantly with a shorter commute, and you cut the cost a lot!
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Old 05-23-2008, 02:51 AM   #4 (permalink)
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If you do go the route of building your own then keep a more open mind to the prospect of using scrap, used, or spare parts. What is available will depend on what is in and around your town/city of residence.
Also, i'm still very much an EV Rookie so don't take my word as gospel.

Warp9 DC 9" motor = $1,700.00
used DC motor from a forklift junk yard = $60 to $180 (I paid $60 for mine)
Refurbish motor cost (DIY) = $20 - $40

Adaptor plate and hub 750
Possibility: buy a small sheet of metal and pay a hobby mechanist to custom make one for you. Price: $200

Motor mount 137.5
Same as above. but it MIGHT be cheaper instead of will.

Curtis-PMC1221B motor controller 750
Throttle controller 60
Main contactor 130
Main circuit breaker 110
DC/DC Converter 420
Voltmeter 48
Will this work? Meters - Voltmeter DC (0-3V/0-15V/0-300V) $12.65


Ammeter 48
Onboard battery charger (Do I need this onboard? I will only recharge at home) 550
If you ONLY plan to recharge at home then no, you don't need it. But what about when you have those rare instances where you have to drive all the way across town for a meeting, family reunion, or just to show it off? When people see "Electric" written on the truck they WILL stop and ask you questions, even invite you to car shows. don't underestimate the power of the electric.

Charger interlock relay 15
50 ft 2/0 welding cable 180
Cable lugs 144
Shrink tubing 5
Vacuum brake system 205
Heating system (I plan on using a space heater that runs only in the garage) 25
(Now you're thinking! but goodwill space heater = $10 during summer time.)

Electric wire and connectors 170
Batteries1000
"Convert It" Manual 25
Library Card - Free

Hardware 300
Tools and supplies 100
Paint and supplies 100
Angle iron 50
Welding services 450
Flywheel resurfacing (or should I get a new lightweight one?) 55

Your Total $7,527.50
If my recommendations work: Approx $5422.15
Savings: $2,105 (my math might be off)
-------------------------

Don't limit yourself to NEW ONLY. Also don't discount the cost of the S-10. Do you already have it?

I'm just a rookie, but hopefully I can get you to view the cost in a different light. RED GREEN is the way to go. you can do this and still find plenty of places to shave cost.
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Old 05-23-2008, 08:55 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Your original conversion estimate sounds about right.

I was shocked at how expensive it can be to convert to electric.

It's enough money that a person could buy a pretty nice used economy car for the same price as conversion.

There are a number of people here working on some form or another of an electric conversion. Of course a lot of us are doing it homebrew/used parts, etc because of the D-I-Y attitude as much as cost savings.

Your original estimate sounded like you would have a really nice finished vehicle.

If you haven't already, try locating a local chapter of the Electric Auto Association. http://www.eaaev.org/ All those people are very nice and very passionate about electric vehicles.
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Old 05-23-2008, 08:57 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I don't have the car yet, but the car cost I can justify. I found one around be for under $2,000. Let's just say that I have spent much less than other people on cars in my neighborhood/life/family.

Thanks for your suggestions. I'll have to do some searching, fixing up old stuff if what I like to do. And I guess a trip to the library is in order. I ride my bike past it, so I'll stop in today.
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Old 05-27-2008, 06:10 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Long time builder and converter here. What is your pack voltage? Just wondering about your battery costs. Also, you might want to invest in a Link-10 battery monitor (used to be called E-Meter), this will tell you your amp-hr capacity.

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Old 05-28-2008, 12:59 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I'm not sure yet. I would guess 144V, but it may be 120V if it meets my needs and it is $1000+ cheaper or something...

I would need some way to tell how much power I have left, good idea.
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Old 05-28-2008, 12:00 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caps18 View Post
I'm not sure yet. I would guess 144V, but it may be 120V if it meets my needs and it is $1000+ cheaper or something...

I would need some way to tell how much power I have left, good idea.
Is this your first conversion? I will ask the usual questions I tell to people who want to convert: What range do you want and How much are you willing to spend?
I am not critizing you, but $1000 is pretty low for a 120-144V battery pack. I just paid $2700 last week for twenty replacement batts for my E.V. (120v). Of course by my calculations I hope to have a range of 60 miles.

I was thinking about your project last night and I can think of a couple of resources for you to save money or time.
I know one company that makes a complete S-10 conversion kit (battery boxes, parts, controller but no batts) but they want close to $9000
I scan daily this website for cheap used parts. If you are on a tight budget you go to that site.
It has been my observation that 50% of E.V. conversions fail due to not finishing the project, loss of motivation or not having enough money for batteries and or finishing the project. Yeah, it is scavenging, but it is cheap parts.
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Old 05-28-2008, 09:33 PM   #10 (permalink)
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My initial thought was to get 10-12 of these marine deep cycle batteries http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_02827524000P , but I have done no research into batteries or capacitors are anything else. I am leaning towards 120V right now and would hope that it would be powerful enough. I'm not sure if I would go AC or DC though and what that impacts in way of costs:


It should be around $1000. I'm not looking for that much range really. 30 miles (round trip) would be the max, and even that would be a rare thing. Most of my trips are between 2 - 9 miles. I am basically making a grocery getter, bad weather transport, and big item transport. I would like to put my kayak in the back and take it easily to a river or lake that is 6 miles away. If the weather is good (and I don't have to carry anything big or rush anywhere), I can ride my bike and will continue to do so, even with an EV.

I do finish the projects I start, it's just not always on the original schedule. My intention is to get done around Dec. 18 (my birthday) so I can register it for 2009 and not have to register it in 2008. The fact that I have a date set is a good thing and will get high priority. I am working on completing all of the other little outstanding projects that I have and am making good progress. There isn't really anything that I worry about when it comes to being able to complete this project. Others have already done it, I have access to welding supplies and welders at work. I do electric and computer engineering at work (remote autonomous robotics...hardware failure is not an option ), and if I go over my budget by a little it won't cause the project to not be completed. This will be my hobby now, so I would like to keep the costs down to make it take fewer years to make up the cost in saved gas, but it's also a fun thing to do.

I wasn't planning on starting anything until August or so, and I will be researching what I need up until then. If the right deal comes along, I may start sooner though.

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