Uh oh, another Tesla autopilot crash fatality

[MetroMPG]

Related: Tesla is saying that the Model X that crashed & rolled on the Pennsylvania Turnpike where the driver reported it was under autopilot control was not under autopilot control at the time of the crash.

Furthermore, Musk baits the owner by saying the crash wouldn't have happened if it had been:

Onboard vehicle logs show Autopilot was turned off in Pennsylvania crash. Moreover, crash would not have occurred if it was on.

https://www.engadget.com/2016/07/14/...model-x-crash/

[jamesqf]

Onboard vehicle logs show Autopilot was turned off in Pennsylvania crash.

Reminds me of the old airplane joke. Airline pilot message to maintenance: "Autoland system on this plane is very rough". Maintenance reply: "Plane does not have autoland".

Makes me wonder if there's something in the software that either doesn't turn on the system even though the driver presses the on button*, or turns it off without the driver being aware of the fact.

*I have an audio player like that. Sometimes have to press the ON button 4 or 5 times before it actually turns on. And a tablet that doesn't turn on unless I hold the switch for a count of 3.

[gone-ot]

Does ANYBODY actually believe that Musk would admit his Autopilot was ON (and functioning) during a fatal crash (remember the Lawyers Universal Law is: "...Deny, Deny, Deny...")?

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

Does ANYBODY actually believe that Musk would admit his Autopilot was ON (and functioning) during a fatal crash (remember the Lawyers Universal Law is: "...Deny, Deny, Deny...")?

Yes. The vehicle logs are subject to subpoena. It would look even worse to lie about something, and then be caught when the evidence is revealed.

You think it's more likely that Musk is lying about Auto Pilot not being on, than it is for the owner of an expensive wrecked car to say that it was on?

[gone-ot]

ANALOGY - As Joseph Stalin said: "...it's not who votes, but rather who counts the votes..."

...only the OEM manufacturer has the specific equipment and software to "read & decipher" the data recorded in the Event Data Recorder (EDR) box currently installed in vehicles (no SAE/EPA/NHSTA standard as yet), SO guess who gets 'first' crack at "messaging" and "adjusting" that data....neither the insurance companies, the courts, nor the police.

[MetroMPG]

In the case of the PA rollover, what makes it even more interesting is apparently the autopilot system WAS on up to 45 seconds before the crash happened:

Tesla said:

approximately 40 seconds prior to the collision, the vehicle did not detect the driver’s hands on the wheel and began a rapidly escalating set of visual and audible alerts to ensure the driver took proper control.

There's much more good info here (I don't want to quote/steal the whole article):

Musk: Autopilot Was Off In PA Tesla Model X Crash, According To Onboard Vehicle Logs

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

In the case of the PA rollover, what makes it even more interesting is apparently the autopilot system WAS on up to 45 seconds before the crash happened:

Tesla said:



There's much more good info here (I don't want to quote/steal the whole article):

Musk: Autopilot Was Off In PA Tesla Model X Crash, According To Onboard Vehicle Logs

So autopilot bailed out on the guy and took the last parachute? How obvious is it that autopilot has stopped? Maybe the guy just shifted his leg a bit and brushed the brake pedal and didn't even know it was off. I heard a Tesla X owner talking on Leo Laporte's Tech Guy show and he said sometimes he just forgets he is driving, expecting autopilot to do the work. It's interesting psychology but wonder if the highways and random people are the best way to work out the bugs.

OK I see where they added more info in the article. Still autopilot was on, and at some point decided to hand controls back to the driver who may not have been fully aware what was going on. To me it sounds like he was sleeping, the car tried to wake him up, and got some response with a groggy driver and then shut it self completely off. Why wouldn't it continue to help steer for a while? If you are in the middle of a corner and you accidentally brush the brake pedal with hands off the wheel it sounds like it just sends you straight instantly. If it knows where the road is at all times whether on or off, why not always have it avoid running into a wall?

[wdb]

PA driver dozed off. It also sounds like Tesla is attempting to distance themselves from their own product by intentionally having it stop doing its job. That way they can shift blame to the driver.

On a more general note, Tesla (or anybody else) having access to that much detail about the moment-to-moment control dynamics of a vehicle that I own gives me the creeps.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

In the case of the PA rollover, what makes it even more interesting is apparently the autopilot system WAS on up to 45 seconds before the crash happened:

Brilliant! Human lets autopilot drive, autopilot decides to take a break, which means no one is driving.

Don't know about you folks (and of course IANAL), but it seems to me that having autopilot turn itself off without some way of positively determining that the human is in control is about as major a product liability issue as you could get - short of the software deciding that its all too much and choosing to commit suicide by ramming a bridge abutment :-)

Tesla may be able to dodge some liability because so far it's only been occupants of the car that have been hurt or killed, but sooner or later there'll be third parties involved.

[RedDevil]

No driver can shed responsibility to any control system in any kind of car.
If they doze off or just don't pay attention to the road that is their fault. You cannot expect the car to cover that.

Tesla does better to make sure the driver IS actively controlling the car and make it stop otherwise. Even so, liability remains with the driver.