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Old 10-05-2009, 06:31 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by basslover911 View Post
Seriously guys... why is everyone so surprised lol
Because of all the people that have been tossed out and replaced, THATS why.

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Old 10-05-2009, 06:33 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Funny, though... in real world equivalency, the MPG rating per cost for all fuels involved brings the Volt down to more real-world numbers... of course, even if you only consider gas mileage, the numbers come down per mile you drive after 51.

Take a 3 hour road trip on the highway, you'll probably get closer to 40MPG... maybe 50. Unless you stop every 38 miles to recharge for several hours via the gas station's external plug-in... which they might not be happy about.

Of course, doing that would turn that 3 hour road trip into a 3 week excursion.
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Old 10-05-2009, 06:35 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I'm not surprised. I'm impressed. Negatively, of course, but impressed none the less. I still blame America at large. Not just the Gov't. We just don't learn, and they all take advantage of it.

Yep, damn impressed I am. It's taken so long to get to this point, the frog just ain't gonna jump out of the pot...
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Old 10-05-2009, 06:36 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Funny, though... in real world equivalency, the MPG rating per cost for all fuels involved brings the Volt down to more real-world numbers... of course, even if you only consider gas mileage, the numbers come down per mile you drive after 51.

Take a 3 hour road trip on the highway, you'll probably get closer to 40MPG... maybe 50. Unless you stop every 38 miles to recharge for several hours via the gas station's external plug-in... which they might not be happy about.

Of course, doing that would turn that 3 hour road trip into a 3 week excursion.
Yeah, but 40 MPG is good. The volt is still a good concept, just too damn overpriced.
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Old 10-05-2009, 06:38 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Yeah, but 40 MPG is good. The volt is still a good concept, just too damn overpriced.
Since when? 40MPG was doable just a few years after mass production of gasoline vehicles...

Hell, we had an electric car here in America that many years ago... same perception as today - not enough range. Back then, they'd take the average person around town all day on a charge.
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Old 10-05-2009, 06:44 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Not necessarily. After all, people are still going to buy cars, and those cars will need to be built. So the factories will need to be somewhere, even though they have names like Honda and Toyota (or perhaps Tesla, or something Chinese) on them. And why not in Michigan?

As for the OP comment about posting plans & schematics of the Volt, there's nothing really secret, or even that innovative, about the basic design. That was done back in the '70s. Some of it was even done by GM: if you search, you can find info on their "Stirlec" hybrid, a design much more advanced than the Volt.
I think your missing the over all picture here. We all know that big corporations spy on each other all of the time, no matter what the laws are. But why saturate the car news about The Volt gonna kick some butt... when it gets here...

And then keep delaying the date so the competition can get there first so they can throw their hands up and go "I'll be Dawg, they beat ars to it.. huh.. Back to the old drawing board, and we better fill out those Federal Grant forms again so we can pay for all of this bean coffee or else were gonna have to fire another 100,000 Michigan workers."

In the end it does sound like a ploy for more taxpayer money. There telling us that the competition has MORE $$ to spend on R&D than General Motors has and they may very well beat GM to the finish line- BIG DEAL. It's called Running a Business, not Running Back to Washington. I love my car, I want to see people in Michigan put back to work (I was raised in/near Flint Mi), but it's like biting your nose off to spite your face every time you read about what GM's managers are doing or saying in the news.

However, to be fair, I suspect those grants are giving out to ANY car company that qualifies for it. As to why GM could still qualify for more help is beyond me.

So if anyone from GM is reading this thread I hope you can recognize your friends from your foes. Many of us do not hate you GM. We just want you do DO SOMETHING RIGHT! (I do not speak for all, but it appears at least a few of us like your cars) Now can ya just manage the books for awhile without firing more Michigan workers and building new plants in China and Mexico? Is it really that difficult?

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Old 10-05-2009, 06:46 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christ View Post
Since when? 40MPG was doable just a few years after mass production of gasoline vehicles...

Hell, we had an electric car here in America that many years ago... same perception as today - not enough range. Back then, they'd take the average person around town all day on a charge.
Put me down as one that says "40MPG is good". But we have lagged far too long getting our cars up to much higher standards, we have been stuck too long with thinking 20MPG is great mileage, and I know a whole lot of people that are PROUD to claim they get 20MPG. Man.

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Old 10-05-2009, 06:47 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christ View Post
Since when? 40MPG was doable just a few years after mass production of gasoline vehicles...

Hell, we had an electric car here in America that many years ago... same perception as today - not enough range. Back then, they'd take the average person around town all day on a charge.
I can get 250 mpg out of a scooter, but it won't be as safe as a car. My Geo gets 55 mpg, but it isn't comfortable or safe on the highway. I can't really explain what i'm saying i'm too busy with schoolwork.
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:43 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Hello -

I find this interesting :

GM admits Volt doubts - Autocar.co.uk
Quote:
GM is also fearful that wealthier competitors will come up with similar technology to the Volt and it will be left behind.

“Our competitors and others are pursuing similar technologies and other competing technologies, in some cases with more money available,” said GM.

“There can be no assurance that they will not acquire similar or superior technologies sooner than we do.”
The reason is, I have read speculation that the Prius and Insight came into existance out of fear of also being left behind :

Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote:
The Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles was a cooperative research program between the U.S. government and major auto corporations, aimed at bringing extremely fuel-efficient (up to 80 mpg) vehicles to market by 2003. The partnership, formed in 1993, involved 8 federal agencies [1], the national laboratories, universities, and the United States Council for Automotive Research (USCAR), which comprises DaimlerChrysler, Ford Motor Company and General Motors Corporation. On track to achieving its objectives, the program was cancelled by the Bush Administration in 2001 at the request of the automakers, with some of its aspects shifted to the much more distant FreedomCAR program.
...

Researchers for the PNGV identified a number of ways to reach 80 mpg including reducing vehicle weight, increasing engine efficiency, combining gasoline engines and electric motors in hybrid vehicles, implementing regenerative braking, and switching to high efficiency fuel cell powerplants. Specific new technology breakthroughs achieved under the program include [5]:

- Development of carbon foam with extremely high heat conductivity (2000 R&D 100 Award)

- Near frictionless carbon coating, many times slicker than Teflon (1998 R&D 100 Award)

- Oxygen-rich air supplier for clean diesel technology (1999 R&D 100 Award)

- Development of a compact microchannel fuel vaporizer to convert gasoline to hydrogen for fuel cells (1999 R&D 100 Award)

- Development of aftertreatment devices to remove nitrogen oxides from diesel exhaust with efficiencies greater than 90 percent, when used with diesel fuel containing 3 ppm of sulfur

- Improvement of the overall efficiency and power-to-weight ratios of power electronics to within 25 percent of targets, while reducing cost by 86 percent to $10/kW since 1995

- Reduction in cost of lightweight aluminum, magnesium, and glass-fiber-reinforced polymer components to less than 50 percent the cost of steel
Reduction in the costs of fuel cells from $10,000/kW in 1994 to $300/kW in 2000

- Substantial weight reduction to within 5 to 10 percent of the vehicle weight reduction goal
Now, I don't know what the real-world cost would have been to bring these cars to market. The Insight was sold at a loss, so a "first gen" of these cars may have done the same.

It's sad to think that the Big 3 might have scared the competition into beating us to the punch.

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Old 10-05-2009, 08:12 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Christ View Post
Take a 3 hour road trip on the highway, you'll probably get closer to 40MPG... maybe 50...
Sure, but to belabor the obvious, if most of your driving is 3 hour road trips, you don't buy a Volt. If most of it's 20-40 mile daily commutes, you might.

That's not even considering further improvements, as for instance the Stirlec, where you have a highly efficient but unsuited to direct automotive use Stirling engine driving the internal generator.

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