"The Volt" May BE SCRAPPED!- NEVER BUILT!!

[NeilBlanchard]

Hi,

Originally Posted by tjts1

The series hybrid fails again.

I agree that the Volt is a poor execution of a serial hybrid. The 1.4L motor is way too big, and the overall weight of the chassis needs to be improved.

The Aptera 2h OTOH is supposed to get 130mpg at worst.

[gone-ot]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Long story short, now people put all the responsibility for safety on the vehicle, not themselves. That ain't gonna work.

...not really trying speak for the "...loose nut at the wheel..." here, but at least there's some chance of achieving UNIFORMITY in safety-products (not users!) by piling on the safety requirement onto the PRODUCT.

...people, however, are obviously NOT so uniform, so starting at the vehicle at least achieves a "starting point" (but not much more).

...safety is like fuel economy...both are influenced/controlled more by the driver than by the product, but at least the product has a "lower" limit (wink, wink).

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by dcb

You haven't been paying attention then.

The argument that bigger is better is weak, better drivers make safer driving, not imbeciles in tanks.

I could say the same thing.

I was the one that posted a youTube video hear that showed how safe a select FEW sub-compacts were when simulated hit by a large SUV/Truck. Less than 4 had high scores, mostly due to having side/curtain air-bags, while the other sub-compacts got wasted bad when T-Boned hit. And even then the Insurance rep doing the test admitted himself that there will always be an advantage in driving a bigger heavier truck when having an accident. But thanks to new technology and air bags smaller cars are a lot safer now. But NOT ALL SMALL CARS ARE AS SAFE. Head on wrecks were not as bad, but when a small car is struck to the side (T-Bone) it is very dangerous and side/curtain air-bags have proven themselves to much lower harm to people involved in such wrecks in small cars. I can post the video again if I can find it.

I agree that a better driver can often make a big difference too. For example: I have thought about buying a motorcycle. If I ever get another bike I will always drive it as careful as I can because I realize how dangerous wrecking a motorcycle can be. There fun, but they sure are not very safe.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by tjts1

The original insight never turned a profit just like the NSX which came out of the same factory.

Dude... you realize the NSX is a specialty car, and it's street version never turned a profit, right?

The original reason for producing that car for street use was because of the rules of the races Honda was interested in, and to show competition with European Supercar markets.

Oddly enough, the engine from the 1st gen NSX is available in the Accord. I'm not sure where the Gen2 NSX engine comes from.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by cfg83

dcb -



Hmmm, I didn't take Jammer's statement to mean SUVs are better. I thought he was talking about crash star ratings in general.

I agree that the argument is weak (90% of safety is in the hands of the driver, blah blah blah ... ), but some people do "armor up" after accidents. I know one example where a lady said she was "saved" by her SUV and went and got another. Jammer's accident didn't lead to him buying a tank, he actually downgraded from a 4x4 to a Compact.

I think that manufacturers have to achieve the good crash ratings because with most other factors being equal, the *competition* will use it against them in ads.

CarloSW2

Thanks for remembering me!

Yup, that's what happen to me. I was driving a 2005 Chevy 4x4 Colorado pickup at only 37MPH, when all of my brakes (ABS too!) went out around a corner and I lost control due to the 90 degree turn I could not slow down fast enough for, which resulted in my truck flipping multiple times. I was unharmed except for 2 small scratches. I thanked GOD, and I had to thank my SEAT BELT too! My truck rested upside down spinning like a top yet my seat-belt held me very secure, my eye glasses were thrown off but my body was held tight even when upside down. I learned a few lessons. I did not feel the size of my truck helped me, in fact I figured the pickup truck's high center of gravity was a major problem and a major reason my truck started flipping over as I tried to keep it on the road and stop it- A small car going that speed could of easily made that curve at 40mph, yet my previous mid size pickup could not handle the curve without flipping. - Thus my reasoning was seat belts, technology was GOOD, and that larger trucks can actually be a BAD thing due to their high center of gravity when trying to take a curve fast due to bad brakes.

I was only going 37mph when I tried to slow my truck down. I was at 40 when I was at the sharp turn and forced to turn 90 degrees and the truck lost traction and went straight into a hillside and next started flipping over and over. I can now drive my sub-compact Cobalt XFE on that exact same curve going 40MPH with EASE. There is a down size to larger trucks (my truck had a LARGE topper on the bed) and SUVs that a lot of drivers overlook. And sub-compacts have been shown to stand up to larger SUVs pretty in tests done by the large Insurance Companies, small cars did well when they have side air bags installed.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Then learn how to drive.

Where I live at, one has to drive DEFENSIVELY.

(good jab btw!)

[gone-ot]

...and, even a good defensive driver is at risk when out numbered and boxed-in on a 65mph freeway full of 75mph "Dale Earnharts" jockying for the front row.

...like I said: "...I can control MY driving skills, but NOT other peoples' driving (lack of?) skills!"

[Christ]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

...and, even a good defensive driver is at risk when out numbered and boxed-in on a 65mph freeway full of 75mph "Dale Earnharts" jockying for the front row.

...like I said: "...I can control MY driving skills, but NOT other peoples' driving (lack of?) skills!"

Alas, a good defensive driver usually wouldn't find himself in that situation. His education and experience would lead him astray from situations like that.

[gone-ot]

Originally Posted by Christ

Alas, a good defensive driver usually wouldn't find himself in that situation. His education and experience would lead him astray from situations like that.

...where the heck do you drive? On your own private roadways or something?

...sorry, but the public roads accommodate both the Good, the Bad and the Ugly and defensive driving is merely one tool in a drivers toolbox which other drivers haven't learned or used.

..."be aware" is an excellent guideline, but will NOT stop someone from blindsiding you when they've lost control of their vehicle.

P.S.--I actually prefer staying off of congested highways for all the above reasons, but (unfortunately) idiots are "...everywhere..." not just on the highways. And, yes, I treat every driver as a possible "threat" to my safety.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Old Mechanic

This thread has taken more tacks than a China Clipper on the home bound run.

Can't say I have ever bought any car of over 200 based on crash test results.

I do like to check the CU used car frequency or repair stats.

Reading through this thread, on the original topic, I can't see GM not bringing out the Volt.

I do find it interesting with all the debate that we do not know what kind of highway mileage the Volt will get, but in the absence of any credible data you can conclude it will not be that great or it would be used as a selling point.

Sure some people will buy it and the fate of the future GM may depend on its success.

The ultimate crash safety is between the ears of the driver, Running a car into a fixed obstacle or running a battering ram into the side of a car assumes the driver has failed in his responsibilities.

Another point that is ignored in crash testing is collision avoidance capabilities, which combined with the drivers situational awareness, makes the potential accident a non event.

I can name specific instances where the smaller car that is more maneuverable has saved members of my family, including myself from death or terrible injury.

After reading about some of the traffic citations received by various individuals, I feel that those same people have placed themselves in dangerous situations voluntarily, which is a far greater risk than the protection provided by a car built to survive a collision. I would prefer a car built to avoid the collision with a decent amount of structural integrity in the event the collision can not be avoided.

Both of the cars I currently drive weigh just over 2000 pounds, so in any collision with a large SUV I will suffer greater injuries, something that is not a part of any test procedure of which I am aware.

I always thought of it this way. Give me a Porsche Carrera and you take a Ford Expedition. Place both of us in a giant paved square of 1 square mile area. Try to hit me with the Expedition while I am in the Porsche.

You don't stand a chance.

In fact there is a very good chance you would roll over the SUV and kill yourself trying to hit me intentionally.

Back to the Volt. With the additional weight of the components necessary to have such a vehicle the mass of same vehicle becomes a factor to consider in any collision. It will require a proportionally greater structural integrity to maintain the passenger compartment's shape in a collision. It will also sacrifice a significant percentage of collision avoidance maneuverability that might make the difference between a wreck and a near miss.

One time (of many I can recall) I was driving on the Interstate, in the right lane. I knew where all the cars around me were and had the left lane as a possible escape route.

A true idiot in an old Buick, that was blowing blue smoke out like it was a mosquito sprayer, pulled out in front of me at a 45 degree angle at 5 MPH, less than 100 feet ahead of me, from the right shoulder of the road.

I swerved into the left lane and avoided the accident, because I was prepared and knew the left lane was clear. If I had not kown that I would have been nailed, knocked sideways in the Del Sol, and then nailed by several other cars that were just behind me.

On at least 6 different occasions I have avoided getting rear ended by pulling into an intersection through a red light. Once in my 59 Corvette I pulled over on the median and the driver who would have hit me in the rear thanked me for my attentiveness. Another time I pulled across the road when I saw a Buick sliding sideways behind me.

Jammer I have read every post in this thread, you have just made the transition from a truck to a high mileage car. Now you are seeing the other side of the coin from the perspective of the driver who has injuries and must avoid another nasty wreck because it could be the last time you have normal human mobility.

Don't take it the wrong way, but I learned to drive defensively when I was 16. I had a 1959 Austin Healey Sprite that had a 998 CC engine and weighed less than 1200 pounds. In 1968 most cars on the road were tanks that weighed 2 tons. My car had no side guard beams, or any other crash protection other than seat belts. I almost had a Ford LTD back up into me at a stop sign, because my car was so low he could not see it in his rear view mirror.

I had a 900 Kawasaki in 1973, and found out how little attention other drivers pay to their surroundings by being run off the road on several occasions.

The closest I ever came to dying was one day I was pulling out of my parents driveway and saw smoke coming out of the eves of the neighbors house across the street. They had dumped the still burning charcoal into a trash bag and set it beside a small tool shed which was connected to the carport and shared the roof with the house. They were not home.

I ran into their back yard and grabbed their hose, turned the water on and put out the visible portion of the fire. Then I ran across the street to my parents house and called the fire dept (don't think they had 911 then).

When the fire dept got there they knocked the door in to the shed. A few seconds later one of the firemen came out of the room holding a can of lacquer thinner. The label was about a third burned off and the top was gone off the can. It was full.

His face was as white as a ghost. He looked at me and looked at the can of lacquer thinner and told me he could not believe it had not ignited or exploded. The room stank of lacquer thinner fumes. Lacquer thinner burns so hot if will melt cinder blocks.

Bottom line is, sure it's nice to have an indestructible car. Maybe we should all drive tanks.

I have never had an airbag deploy in a car I was riding in or driving. My 88 year old father told me I was the only person who made him feel comfortable enough to fall asleep riding in a car with me at the wheel.

I have driven a car straight from Marathon in the Florida Keys to Saint Louis Missouri, 33 hours behind the wheel, close to 2000 miles.

I had a 58 VW that I traded to a good friend. He came to my workplace one day and told me he wanted to show me something. We rode to a salvage yard and walked out back. There was my VW sitting in the yard. I walked up behind the car and it didn't look too bad. Then I walked around to the front.
He was driving down a 4 lane non divided highway, when a 67 Pontiac Bonneville came over into his lane and hit him, head on.

The VW's steering wheel was stuck through the windshield and sitting a foot above the roof. The shaft of the steering column had come out of the housing. Almost 3 feet of steel shaft that was still connected to the wheel that my (very strong) friend had shoved through the windshield as it came out of the housing to impale him.
The was nothing left of the VW from the right headlight to the left door handle. You could run a string from the headlight to the door handle and touch nothing. The gas, brake, and clutch pedals were folded over the transmission tunnel into the passengers side of the car.

His girlfriend broke her leg when she hit him as he took most of the impact on his side of the car.

He walked away from the crash.

I have seen a lot of death in car crashes. Head on collisions that were so bad the inside of the car was covered in shredded human flesh (stolen brand new 1968 Road Runner). Probably hundreds of wrecked cars that people died in.

I fixed a Jeep once that had only $750 worth of damage, but killed 3 people when they were ejected and the Jeep rolled over on them.

It's not that I do not appreciate the great strides in safety that have been built inot cars today. What worries me is it seems like the better we build the cars the worse the drivers get.

regards
Mech

PLEASE WATCH THIS IMPORTANT CRASH TEST OF SMALL CARS BEING HIT TO THEIR SIDES BY LARGER SUVs AND TRUCKS (simulated). I believe this video mentions the 2005 Cobalt did well with Side Air Bags, which came standard on my 2009 car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2DFvYQyM20

This is the best test I have found for small cars, and it strikes me as an honest one. Observe how much better the Cobalt did with side/curtain type air-bags than the Cobalt with no side air bags. Bottom line was The Cobalt was one of 2 small cars that did the best of the rest. However they do make a point of making it clear that people in the smaller car will always be at a disadvantage as compared to the full size SUV. -- At the end of the video they ranked the 2005 Cobalt as a "Best Pick". This type of information only helped me conclude how I was spending the insurance settlement.