"The Volt" May BE SCRAPPED!- NEVER BUILT!!

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by theunchosen

The US market doesn't have any real competitors for lightweight. Lotus is the only manufacturer that focuses on this as a design philosophy(that sells in the US, TVR, Ariel, Caparo, Tramontana and a handful of others handle overseas markets).

A base model Civic weighs in around 32-3500 lbs and gets 30 odd mpg. Cut that in half and then cut the engine displacement in half. Might not double the FE, but its going to be alot closer to 60 mpg than not.

But it won't happen. The only individuals who are willing to get into a car that has poor crash test ratings are the ones who want a car that goes very fast. the average person would not buy a car if the competitor came out and said their opponent got 2/5 stars instead of 5/5....

Of course not, would you?

I think they have came a long ways by adding a million airbags to small light cars, as far as making them safer. But I don't want to drive a car that can get me killed on the first fender bender- that's for sure.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Christ

Oh, and don't forget me. Crash test ratings mean nothing to me, honestly.

I remember the 4th gen Civics... Light was a design feature. In fact, Honda in general in days of yore, light was a design feature.

There is a story about Soichiro Honda from back when the company first started:

As the lead engineer and founder of Honda, Soichiro believed that weight and performance went hand in hand. Excess weight meant lack of efficiency, and that meant higher prices in all aspects, both for the company and for the consumer. Some felt he was going too far when he would troll the assembly lines, measuring and triple-checking the assembled product. When he found a bolt that was a few threads too long, he would remove it, document it, file those threads off, document that, then require that all new orders of the aforementioned bolt were ordered to the new specified length, and all blueprints of the bolt be updated to show the refined specification.

I think you are maybe the 2nd or 3rd adult (normally motorcycle drivers) I ever heard say that they did not care about crash ratings. If one has any trust in the ratings as truly showing what is safe and what is not safe, well I for one would like to live as long and as healthy life as I can. So I will gladly give up a few MPG for MY LIFE.

[Jammer]

Another note about Crash ratings: To be honest, I did not know what my Cobalt XFE's Crash rating was before I decided to buy it. HOWEVER- I did take comfort in knowing how many air-bags were in the car, especially the side / curtain mount car bags, which a YouTube video of an Insurance Company test of simulated large SUVs crashing against small cars showed side/curtain airbags made a BIG difference in harm reduction, so I partially based my choose based on the air-bags.

Now that I think about it, I did glance at how many stars the car got for a crash rating and if it was much lower I would of likely changed my mind at the last moment and backed out of the deal. After all, I just had a major wreck in a pickup truck last July and safety was in my mind, as well as MPG.

[tjts1]

In an interview with Fox Car Report Live, vehicle line directory Tony Posawatz sheds some light on the topic, saying that the Volt's sustained mileage will be "better than any conventional car, and we're trying to figure out how close, or if it will actually be better than any hybrids."

To put that figure into perspective, we'd imagine that means the Volt would fall somewhere between the 32 mpg rating of the Toyota Yaris and the 50 mpg rating of the Toyota Prius when running under charge-sustaining mode with an otherwise depleted battery pack.

Posawatz: Volt range-extended mileage to be "better than any conventional car." But what about hybrids? — Autoblog
The series hybrid fails again.

[dcb]

Originally Posted by Jammer

I think you are maybe the 2nd or 3rd adult (normally motorcycle drivers) I ever heard say that they did not care about crash ratings. ...

You haven't been paying attention then.

The argument that bigger is better is weak, better drivers make safer driving, not imbeciles in tanks.

[cfg83]

dcb -

Originally Posted by dcb

You haven't been paying attention then.

The argument that bigger is better is weak, better drivers make safer driving, not imbeciles in tanks.

Hmmm, I didn't take Jammer's statement to mean SUVs are better. I thought he was talking about crash star ratings in general.

I agree that the argument is weak (90% of safety is in the hands of the driver, blah blah blah ... ), but some people do "armor up" after accidents. I know one example where a lady said she was "saved" by her SUV and went and got another. Jammer's accident didn't lead to him buying a tank, he actually downgraded from a 4x4 to a Compact.

I think that manufacturers have to achieve the good crash ratings because with most other factors being equal, the *competition* will use it against them in ads.

CarloSW2

[Frank Lee]

But I don't want to drive a car that can get me killed on the first fender bender- that's for sure.

Then learn how to drive.

[gone-ot]

...I've always wondered how the Crash Stars equated to actual injury and death?

...does 1 star mean you're 1/5th injured or dead or what?

[user removed]

This thread has taken more tacks than a China Clipper on the home bound run.

Can't say I have ever bought any car of over 200 based on crash test results.

I do like to check the CU used car frequency or repair stats.

Reading through this thread, on the original topic, I can't see GM not bringing out the Volt.

I do find it interesting with all the debate that we do not know what kind of highway mileage the Volt will get, but in the absence of any credible data you can conclude it will not be that great or it would be used as a selling point.

Sure some people will buy it and the fate of the future GM may depend on its success.

The ultimate crash safety is between the ears of the driver, Running a car into a fixed obstacle or running a battering ram into the side of a car assumes the driver has failed in his responsibilities.

Another point that is ignored in crash testing is collision avoidance capabilities, which combined with the drivers situational awareness, makes the potential accident a non event.

I can name specific instances where the smaller car that is more maneuverable has saved members of my family, including myself from death or terrible injury.

After reading about some of the traffic citations received by various individuals, I feel that those same people have placed themselves in dangerous situations voluntarily, which is a far greater risk than the protection provided by a car built to survive a collision. I would prefer a car built to avoid the collision with a decent amount of structural integrity in the event the collision can not be avoided.

Both of the cars I currently drive weigh just over 2000 pounds, so in any collision with a large SUV I will suffer greater injuries, something that is not a part of any test procedure of which I am aware.

I always thought of it this way. Give me a Porsche Carrera and you take a Ford Expedition. Place both of us in a giant paved square of 1 square mile area. Try to hit me with the Expedition while I am in the Porsche.

You don't stand a chance.

In fact there is a very good chance you would roll over the SUV and kill yourself trying to hit me intentionally.

Back to the Volt. With the additional weight of the components necessary to have such a vehicle the mass of same vehicle becomes a factor to consider in any collision. It will require a proportionally greater structural integrity to maintain the passenger compartment's shape in a collision. It will also sacrifice a significant percentage of collision avoidance maneuverability that might make the difference between a wreck and a near miss.

One time (of many I can recall) I was driving on the Interstate, in the right lane. I knew where all the cars around me were and had the left lane as a possible escape route.

A true idiot in an old Buick, that was blowing blue smoke out like it was a mosquito sprayer, pulled out in front of me at a 45 degree angle at 5 MPH, less than 100 feet ahead of me, from the right shoulder of the road.

I swerved into the left lane and avoided the accident, because I was prepared and knew the left lane was clear. If I had not kown that I would have been nailed, knocked sideways in the Del Sol, and then nailed by several other cars that were just behind me.

On at least 6 different occasions I have avoided getting rear ended by pulling into an intersection through a red light. Once in my 59 Corvette I pulled over on the median and the driver who would have hit me in the rear thanked me for my attentiveness. Another time I pulled across the road when I saw a Buick sliding sideways behind me.

Jammer I have read every post in this thread, you have just made the transition from a truck to a high mileage car. Now you are seeing the other side of the coin from the perspective of the driver who has injuries and must avoid another nasty wreck because it could be the last time you have normal human mobility.

Don't take it the wrong way, but I learned to drive defensively when I was 16. I had a 1959 Austin Healey Sprite that had a 998 CC engine and weighed less than 1200 pounds. In 1968 most cars on the road were tanks that weighed 2 tons. My car had no side guard beams, or any other crash protection other than seat belts. I almost had a Ford LTD back up into me at a stop sign, because my car was so low he could not see it in his rear view mirror.

I had a 900 Kawasaki in 1973, and found out how little attention other drivers pay to their surroundings by being run off the road on several occasions.

The closest I ever came to dying was one day I was pulling out of my parents driveway and saw smoke coming out of the eves of the neighbors house across the street. They had dumped the still burning charcoal into a trash bag and set it beside a small tool shed which was connected to the carport and shared the roof with the house. They were not home.

I ran into their back yard and grabbed their hose, turned the water on and put out the visible portion of the fire. Then I ran across the street to my parents house and called the fire dept (don't think they had 911 then).

When the fire dept got there they knocked the door in to the shed. A few seconds later one of the firemen came out of the room holding a can of lacquer thinner. The label was about a third burned off and the top was gone off the can. It was full.

His face was as white as a ghost. He looked at me and looked at the can of lacquer thinner and told me he could not believe it had not ignited or exploded. The room stank of lacquer thinner fumes. Lacquer thinner burns so hot if will melt cinder blocks.

Bottom line is, sure it's nice to have an indestructible car. Maybe we should all drive tanks.

I have never had an airbag deploy in a car I was riding in or driving. My 88 year old father told me I was the only person who made him feel comfortable enough to fall asleep riding in a car with me at the wheel.

I have driven a car straight from Marathon in the Florida Keys to Saint Louis Missouri, 33 hours behind the wheel, close to 2000 miles.

I had a 58 VW that I traded to a good friend. He came to my workplace one day and told me he wanted to show me something. We rode to a salvage yard and walked out back. There was my VW sitting in the yard. I walked up behind the car and it didn't look too bad. Then I walked around to the front.
He was driving down a 4 lane non divided highway, when a 67 Pontiac Bonneville came over into his lane and hit him, head on.

The VW's steering wheel was stuck through the windshield and sitting a foot above the roof. The shaft of the steering column had come out of the housing. Almost 3 feet of steel shaft that was still connected to the wheel that my (very strong) friend had shoved through the windshield as it came out of the housing to impale him.
The was nothing left of the VW from the right headlight to the left door handle. You could run a string from the headlight to the door handle and touch nothing. The gas, brake, and clutch pedals were folded over the transmission tunnel into the passengers side of the car.

His girlfriend broke her leg when she hit him as he took most of the impact on his side of the car.

He walked away from the crash.

I have seen a lot of death in car crashes. Head on collisions that were so bad the inside of the car was covered in shredded human flesh (stolen brand new 1968 Road Runner). Probably hundreds of wrecked cars that people died in.

I fixed a Jeep once that had only $750 worth of damage, but killed 3 people when they were ejected and the Jeep rolled over on them.

It's not that I do not appreciate the great strides in safety that have been built inot cars today. What worries me is it seems like the better we build the cars the worse the drivers get.

regards
Mech

[Frank Lee]

Long story short, now people put all the responsibility for safety on the vehicle, not themselves. That ain't gonna work.