"The Volt" May BE SCRAPPED!- NEVER BUILT!!

[Christ]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

...where the heck do you drive? On your own private roadways or something?

...sorry, but the public roads accommodate both the Good, the Bad and the Ugly and defensive driving is merely one tool in a drivers toolbox which other drivers haven't learned or used.

..."be aware" is an excellent guideline, but will NOT stop someone from blindsiding you when they've lost control of their vehicle.

P.S.--I actually prefer staying off of congested highways for all the above reasons, but (unfortunately) idiots are "...everywhere..." not just on the highways.

It's not where, but when.

I try to time my trips for times when I know I will encounter the least amount of traffic, because for one, I don't like to be around other drivers most of the time, and for number two, I'm not interrupting other people's driving with my own driving style. I drive slow, I know that. I prefer to not have everyone and their brother honking like a jackass because I didn't pull away from a green light before it turned green.

You're right, defensive driving won't save you from someone else's stupidity all the time... but you said a good defensive driver. To me, at least, there is a difference.

[gone-ot]

...we picked the Vibe (in spite of Pontiac going belly-up) because of its side-curtain and seat side-cushion airbags (SRS) over other vehicles (Mini, Smart, etc.).

...wanted a Pontiac XFE, but none were available in AZ equipped as we wanted.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by cfg83

What I mean is, if a person drives a 5-star rated car 50% of their miles, and a motorcycle the other 50% of their miles, I think they would be accepting a "2.5" star crash rating, because that is the degree to which they are exposing themselves to danger

However, just because I drive a car (Insight) that happens to have a fairly high crash rating, it doesn't follow that that is the crash rating I'd accept. I bought the Insight for a bunch of other reasons. As I said, I didn't even know its crash rating until long after I bought it, but I would have still bought it if it had a 1.

[Christ]

I've never bought a new car, for various reasons. I've never bought from a dealer for mostly the same reasons. Private Parties don't display crash test or mileage figures, and they don't hold stuff so you can do some research.

When you don't intend to pay more than $200-$300 for a vehicle, you tend to know what you want to know, and forsake all else in advance.

[NeilBlanchard]

B.O.T.

Despite assurances from people like Chelsea Sexton, I'm very concerned that the very conservative execution of the Volt will be it's undoing. It uses an engine that is at least 2X too big for the job it is needed for -- it is exactly the same engine that will be used in the ICE-only Cruze; which is a nearly identically sized car. (see below)

Doing this almost completely negates the efficiency that is gained by being a serial hybrid!

The (much) heavier 1.4L engine has to be dragged around all the time by the electric drive motor, and so reduces the battery's range, and the battery has to be bigger than it otherwise would be -- so it's own weight is increased, which in turn decreases the range...

Almost nothing in the basic chassis stands out as helping the car be more efficient: they are using bog-standard steel with no innovation to increase strength while saving weight, as far as I know. Add to this the "FAT" seats, etc., and you get a fairly big and heavy car that has a small interior.

They have taken a decently aerodynamic car, removed the transmission -- and replaced it with a large battery and an electric motor. So, they end up with a slightly more efficient car that is a lot heavier. The cost and weight savings of the transmission is swamped by the increased cost and weight of the battery and electric motor and all the control systems...

Why would the Volt need 100HP? The same 1.4L engine will power the Cruze, and even with a transmission, you need that size of an engine to get the power in off-peak conditions.

The whole point of a serial hybrid, like the Volt -- is to use the engine at it's peak efficiency to charge the battery. For example, the Aptera 2h (1,700 pounds and extremely aerodynamic with a Cd of 0.15) needs an approximately 15HP engine to generate enough power to "keep ahead" of the rate the car can use the electrical power.

So, if the Volt weighs ~2X as much and has a Cd of ~0.25, do you think it could get by with a 50HP engine? Or maybe a 35HP engine? I think that it could! Especially, since such and engine would save 400-500 pounds (from both the smaller engine, cooling system, and the smaller required fuel tank). The chassis and suspension and brakes could be proportionally lightened then, too.

[Edit: the prototype Mini serial hybrid mentions that the charging ICE is 1/10th the weight of the original 4-cylinder. I'm reading that the GM engine is an aluminum block, so I'll revise my guesstimate down to 250-350 pound savings, including the smaller cooling system, and smaller fuel tank, and smaller everything else (suspension, brakes, etc).

They originally planned a 1L 3-cylinder turbo for the Volt -- which is still too big in my opinion.

Oh and the Cruze has a turbo-charged version of the 1.4L rated at 140HP.]

Some of that weight savings could be used to increase the size of the battery pack, which would increase the EV range, and provide a larger cushion of time to get the charging done.

The seats (and probably other things) could be made less "fat" in the Volt as well, and I'll bet that more weight could be saved, and the interior space could be made larger and more useful.

[Christ]

I don't see a 400 lb weight savings from reducing ICE size. The engine itself probably doesn't weigh that much now.

Honda's 1.5 and 1.6 liter engines only weigh about 200, I can pick them up and carry them around. Hell, even the Iron Duke only weighed in slightly above 400, IIRC, and it was a 2.5 liter hunk of... well... Iron.

Remove half the cylinders from the engine, make it a .7 liter 2 cylinder, and where it could make 100 HP before, it will only make about 40 HP now. You lose torque in a non-linear scale when you lose cylinders. But you don't lose half the weight from the engine. Downscaling the cooling system proportionally would help there, but again, those components just don't weigh that much. There is only ever about 20 lbs of coolant in a standard cooling system, maybe 30.

I can see losing 400 lbs from the whole car, maybe. From the ICE and drive components, not so much.

[gone-ot]

...the VOLT as I see it needs to "shrink" the exterior and "expand" the interior.

...and the "old" AMERICAN REVOLUTION needs to shed it's "old" way of thinking and become the "new" AMERICAN EVOLUTION.

...and, lastly, maybe the USGovt/taxpayers should hire some of the people from this website as "technical ombudsman" consultants!

...what we need is a "...car designed by a TEAM..." not the typically proverbial government "...car designed by a COMMITEE..."!!!

[Christ]

When I worked in Binghamton, NY, I did freelance (It wasn't my job description, but I did it anyway) consulting with the engineers to help design new pieces and parts that would actually be workable in the real world, not just on paper. I don't have a degree, so they weren't paying me to be an engineer, but many of the engineers and print-handlers there would come to me. Amazing what a piece of paper can do for your paycheck, ain't it?

I also did some time at Endicott Interconnect, where I designed 3 different tables for holding cores during the etch process, saving the company several hundred thousand a year in damaged cores... Of course, because of the way the company is set up, someone else gets credit for it, they get the bonus, and you get laid off after 6 months.

They have an agreement that you sign to get hired there that if you file a patent while working for them, they can view, discuss, and take part in it, and if you part ways, they take ownership of it. Oh yes, IBM has gone to ****. (EIT is the old IBM, the new IBM is not even close to the same company.)

[gone-ot]

...just about ALL company's today REQUIRE you to "sign away" all patent rights and ownership over to them upon employment. Its the norm, not an exception.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

...just about ALL company's today REQUIRE you to "sign away" all patent rights and ownership over to them upon employment. Its the norm, not an exception.

'sok, though. I faxed a non-disclosure agreement to the company pres and VP. They were both returned "Unable to Sign - Legal".

I found it mildly amusing.

That company gets a tax subsidy for employing "a large number of people" every year. They continue to do this yearly by laying off "a large number of people", then hiring on more "people" to do the same jobs at the lower starting wage.

Smart business tactic, eh?