vskid3's 2005 Prius

[vskid3]

Originally Posted by S Keith

EDIT: in terms of module "loving," if you're getting P30XX indicating weak blocks, they don't need love. They need to be replaced.

Shhhh, they don't need to know that. I think the code was P3020. It's due for emissions testing this month, I just need it to pass that. I've been driving it gently to keep it from using much battery and getting it ready to pass the test.

Really not sure what to do about the battery. Part of me wants to just replace the car with something else, but that would likely end up costing more than most battery replacement options. The rebuild/refresh I did last year cost me $120 for 3 replacement modules and would take me 8-12 hours to do again (will have to wait to see how many actually need replaced). There's a few guys on the local classifieds that'll replace your battery with one they refurbished for $500-1000. I'll have to see if any of them will discuss their methods; if they have a pool of modules that they match together, that's better than what I can do. I wish I could find a low mileage Gen3 battery and swap the modules over, but it seems like everyone just sells them by the module.

[S Keith]

Originally Posted by vskid3

Shhhh, they don't need to know that. I think the code was P3020. It's due for emissions testing this month, I just need it to pass that. I've been driving it gently to keep it from using much battery and getting it ready to pass the test.

Really not sure what to do about the battery. Part of me wants to just replace the car with something else, but that would likely end up costing more than most battery replacement options. The rebuild/refresh I did last year cost me $120 for 3 replacement modules and would take me 8-12 hours to do again (will have to wait to see how many actually need replaced). There's a few guys on the local classifieds that'll replace your battery with one they refurbished for $500-1000. I'll have to see if any of them will discuss their methods; if they have a pool of modules that they match together, that's better than what I can do. I wish I could find a low mileage Gen3 battery and swap the modules over, but it seems like everyone just sells them by the module.

If you have an active P3020, it's going to be tough to pass emissions. No matter how much you baby it, it's going to stress that block. Stay away from Gen3 modules unless they're very low mileage. The Gen3 murder their batteries. They use them more aggressively, and they have cooling problems. I've seen a couple dozen, and they've been 100% consistent with less than 5 good modules. I'll take a 2004 with 200K before I'll touch a Gen3 with 100K.

Highly unlikely you need to go back through the pack like that again. Let it sit for 48 hours and replace any modules that are outside of a .05V total range from highest to lowest EXCEPT the end modules. End modules may be up to .10V below the max.

Buy replacement modules from Hybrid Automotive. They are professionally reconditioned and are very reliable with a 1 year warranty.

If you really want to do a recondition, whole-pack grid charge/discharge is extremely effective.

[vskid3]

The last time I got the warning lights (and I assume a battery code) was about a month ago, so crossing my fingers it'll last a few more days. I found the instructions for getting the car ready for the emissions test, hopefully I can get everything good by my inspection appointment Monday morning. Cat, O2, and evap are all incomplete (probably due to the short trips it's been on since clearing the codes). Evap recommends the gas being at 1/2-3/4 tank, of course it's almost full...

[vskid3]

Like S Keith predicted, the battery wasn't good enough to pass emissions. I got a CEL on my way to work Saturday morning. But, what do you do when you have two hybrids that use the same battery modules (and both are having battery issues)? You take them both apart and swap all the Camry's good modules into the Prius' battery, of course! Batteries came out Saturday night, swapped the modules, put the Prius back together, went for a drive and got all the emissions tests to pass by 9pm Sunday. Took it in for emissions this morning and it passed.

Now I just have to get everything fixed so I can have 2 working cars again. Turns out one of the modules in the Camry's battery was leaking. The other modules all seem fine. I didn't even check the Prius' modules before swapping them out, so we'll have to see how many of them need replaced.

[S Keith]

Originally Posted by vskid3

Like S Keith predicted, the battery wasn't good enough to pass emissions. I got a CEL on my way to work Saturday morning. But, what do you do when you have two hybrids that use the same battery modules (and both are having battery issues)? You take them both apart and swap all the Camry's good modules into the Prius' battery, of course! Batteries came out Saturday night, swapped the modules, put the Prius back together, went for a drive and got all the emissions tests to pass by 9pm Sunday. Took it in for emissions this morning and it passed.

Now I just have to get everything fixed so I can have 2 working cars again. Turns out one of the modules in the Camry's battery was leaking. The other modules all seem fine. I didn't even check the Prius' modules before swapping them out, so we'll have to see how many of them need replaced.

Sorry to hear it... damn... that's a lot of work. At least you're through emissions and can deal with it as you like.

Leaks almost always disable the car with a P0AA6 code that can only be read by higher end code readers.

If the Prius modules were leaking, you would likely be disabled somewhere, though on very rare occasions, folks can get 100s of miles before it trips again.

[vskid3]

Originally Posted by S Keith

If the Prius modules were leaking, you would likely be disabled somewhere, though on very rare occasions, folks can get 100s of miles before it trips again.

Sounds like this may have been a blessing in disguise. The Camry has become our favorite for long distance travel and it would not be fun to find ourselves stuck on the side of the road a couple hundred miles from home. Here's what the bottom of the Camry's battery looks like.


Do you have any experience with alternative modules like Bumblebee's BeeMax or these cylindrical modules? I'll probably just replace my bad modules for now, but I wouldn't mind spending more next time if it'll give me many years of worry free service.

[S Keith]

Originally Posted by vskid3

Sounds like this may have been a blessing in disguise. The Camry has become our favorite for long distance travel and it would not be fun to find ourselves stuck on the side of the road a couple hundred miles from home. Here's what the bottom of the Camry's battery looks like.


Do you have any experience with alternative modules like Bumblebee's BeeMax or these cylindrical modules? I'll probably just replace my bad modules for now, but I wouldn't mind spending more next time if it'll give me many years of worry free service.

Did you find the source of the leak? What is atypical in your picture is the LACK of staining immediately around one of the mounting holes in the bottom - the most common place to fail. I would guess that one of your modules failed at a plastic weld or an edge.

One thing about a P0AA6 - most OBDII readers - even the cheapest - can clear that code and allow start. P0AA6 does not shut the car down, but once the coded is sensed and the driver is alerted, the car will not restart after the next power-off. A 12V disconnect for 2 minutes will typically enable restart. I have witnessed drivers do this for up to 6 months in order to avoid the expense of a battery replacement. They stop when the battery deteriorates to the point that a weak block or P0A80 code is thrown.

I have no experience with the BeeMax cells.

[vskid3]

I'm pretty sure module 13 of the Camry battery is the one that leaked. I used my RC charger to measure the IR of all the Camry's modules and they were all ~30ohm except for 13 at 55ohm. 13 is on the right of the picture, 12 is on the left.


This is the mounting hole for 13. It looks like someone bent it back into place, maybe when it was refurbished while the dealer had it before we bought it. The battery had definitely been worked on recently; some of the trunk panels weren't replaced correctly and the hardware like the bus bars didn't have much corrosion. None of the modules were numbered or marked like I've seen in most pics and videos, I wonder if they just cleaned the connections and maybe did some charge/discharges instead of replacing any modules. We've put close to 3k miles on it since buying it in March and it currently has 205k miles.

[S Keith]

Originally Posted by vskid3

I'm pretty sure module 13 of the Camry battery is the one that leaked. I used my RC charger to measure the IR of all the Camry's modules and they were all ~30ohm except for 13 at 55ohm. 13 is on the right of the picture, 12 is on the left.


This is the mounting hole for 13. It looks like someone bent it back into place, maybe when it was refurbished while the dealer had it before we bought it. The battery had definitely been worked on recently; some of the trunk panels weren't replaced correctly and the hardware like the bus bars didn't have much corrosion. None of the modules were numbered or marked like I've seen in most pics and videos, I wonder if they just cleaned the connections and maybe did some charge/discharges instead of replacing any modules. We've put close to 3k miles on it since buying it in March and it currently has 205k miles.

I've only seen leaks like that one time on shipped modules where the "wedge" piece that helps align modules vertically in that area is damaged when modules are shipped in a "loose" state (not clamped) with all modules in contact with one another as if they were in a pack - allows the two wedges to work against each other until one breaks.

Original batteries almost always have identical first four and last digits (5 digits total). If the first four digits and/or the last digit is different, it's likely an altered pack. Given the age at acquisition, I'd be kinda surprised if it was an original. The first four digits are manufacture date DDMY (M is 1-9, X, Y, Z; Y is alpha with F=2004, e.g., 04Xg = 10/4/2005). The last digit is a batch code. You may see some date variation by up to 3 months (RARE), but you will never see a batch code variation on an original pack.

You didn't get a P0AA6 because there was never a path from the HV battery to chassis ground. Had the electrolyte leaked and contacted the case in such a way as it maintained conductivity back to the source of the leak, you would have received a code. Looks like it just leaked and dripped never maintaining a path between ground and the HV battery. You would eventually receive a P30XX (weak block) code due to the high IR. At the number you measured (mentally adjusted for the incorrect charger value), I'm a little surprised you didn't get one yet.

[vskid3]

Looks like the Camry modules I have in the Prius are pretty well balanced, but their capacity is crap. I did the battery test in Hybrid Assistant and went from 52.5% SOC to 42.0% in just over a minute and a half while running the AC at a moderate level. The app extrapolated this to meaning the pack has 1.96Ah of capacity.

I checked the date codes on the 6 Camry modules that aren't in the Prius. 5 of them are from August 2006 (so possibly original), one of them is from August 2010. And what do you know, it's our leaker, lucky 13. :/

Now I'm wondering if it's even worth it to replace the terrible modules with how tired the rest of them seem to be. I feel like I might be better off trying my luck with a refurb and hoping the modules are healthier, or crossing my fingers on the aftermarket new cylindrical cells.