Why don't vehicles have aerofoils to partially take the weight of the car?

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by JulianEdgar

No I don't. I say what you write here is very often wrong, misleading or confused.

I don't hurl personal abuse, as is your continued behaviour.

1) Perhaps you've never conducted a thought experiment in which you imagined what it's like to be on the other end of your remarks.
2) 'Very often' has transmuted to 'most'.
3) 'mislead' carries the implication that I've wittingly mislead the recipient of the information.
* which implies that you'd even be able to discern the difference. Very dubious, given your track record for getting things wrong, only to discover it months later, after months of hell for the rest of us.
* confusion, as a characterization of my remarks, again, implies a capacity for discernment on your part, which is quite dubious in light of your obvious ignorance of:
a) wind tunnels
b) flow separation
c) adverse pressure gradients
d) sectional density
e) parametrics
f) spoilers
g) pressure recovery
h) US Patents
i) downwash
j) attached vortices
k) effective fineness ratio
l) lift
m) diffusers
n) ground clearance
o) drag reduction
p) 'optimum' shapes
q) streamline spacing comprehension
r) tufts
s) mathematics
to name some criteria
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As to my 'continued behavior', all I will tell you, is that, as long as you attack science with ignorance, I promise that I'm going to call you on it. I'm in a position to know certain things, and I feel a responsibility to rebut any remarks which are structurally ignorant, misinformed, underinformed, belief, etc..
And any remark, attributed to any of your distinguished panel of experts, which is out of line, I'll correct also.
I do not share your obvious deification of PhDs. With the exception of Hucho, I'm unsure as to whether any of your 'expert' network members has ever had any personal, first-order reality experience with low-drag vehicles during their entire careers. A nice prerequisite for participating at EcoModder.com.
I have zero tolerance for 'certification' parading around with an air of intellectual mastery. PhDs are a dime a dozen in some environments.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by JulianEdgar

I have, dozens of times.

You just ignore the corrections, deny the corrections, obfuscate the corrections, pretend something else was said, say that black is really white (as you've done with the correction of your statement 'you can patent ideas' - well, no you can't, at least not in the US) - and so on.

I think it is now far better to assume that everything you write here is incorrect, misleading or confused. The exceptions are wonderful, but as far as I can see, they are now quite rare.

And no, that is not an ad hominem attack - it is an attack on what you write here, not you as a person.

Please be directed to # 191 permalink, where I've listed areas of discussion which would be candidates for you attempting to 'correct' me, where your evidence failed to move the dial, and in many instances corroborated exactly what I've published, and you were personally ignorant enough not to be able to make the distinction.
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You HAVE provided materials which are presented anecdotally, which I've requested as a full transcript from Hucho, Howell, Wolf, etc., which fell on deaf eyes.
1) You say that Thomas Wolf says I'm wrong about Porsche 911 spoilers, then, in his quote, he says the same thing about them as I. But of course, I'm wrong, and he's right. Confused, as anyone under the circumstances would be, I request the actual dialogue hoping to discover where your brain went off he rails, but I'm met with silence.
Under Abraham Lincoln's metric, you are exhibiting cowardice, and it's important to call things as they are, even if you interpret it as abuse.
And I guarantee you that it will continue as long as you choose to hide under the skirts of your mentors, denying the accused, admissible evidence.
In the United States, you would already be in jail for what you've done.
You attack with your tongue. I defend myself with mine. It's very simple.

[freebeard]

In the United States, you would already be in jail for what you've done.

Picking at nits, I know -- but isn't there a Bill Of Rights with it's First Amendment?

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Picking at nits, I know -- but isn't there a Bill Of Rights with it's First Amendment?

No.
People can be indicted, tried, convicted, penalized, and incarcerated in the United States for doing what Julian Edgar has been doing.
As an ally of the United Dates, Australia may share state department extradition agreements involving resolution for injury across international borders. We do have a US Embassy in Australia.
I'd rather not put it to the test. It's up to Julian Edgar to decide.
He's on thin ice here at EcoModder.

[freebeard]

People are being beaten in prison for accepting an invitation into 'the People's House' in January. Crazy times.

[JulianEdgar]

Originally Posted by aerohead

I do not share your obvious deification of PhDs. With the exception of Hucho, I'm unsure as to whether any of your 'expert' network members has ever had any personal, first-order reality experience with low-drag vehicles during their entire careers. A nice prerequisite for participating at EcoModder.com.
I have zero tolerance for 'certification' parading around with an air of intellectual mastery. PhDs are a dime a dozen in some environments.

I have been lucky enough to have been working directly with the aerodynamic experts who write the books and papers you read.

Think about the difference. There's a big one.

Same as I am doing now on my new history of suspension book.

[JulianEdgar]

Originally Posted by aerohead

No.
People can be indicted, tried, convicted, penalized, and incarcerated in the United States for doing what Julian Edgar has been doing.
As an ally of the United Dates, Australia may share state department extradition agreements involving resolution for injury across international borders. We do have a US Embassy in Australia.
I'd rather not put it to the test. It's up to Julian Edgar to decide.
He's on thin ice here at EcoModder.

Your really do write absolute rubbish, don't you?

I just find it amazing that people here for so long thought what you were writing was correct! I guess it's easier to believe someone who sounds like he knows what he is talking about rather than personally read the references and do the testing.

[JulianEdgar]

Originally Posted by aerohead

Please be directed to # 191 permalink, where I've listed areas of discussion which would be candidates for you attempting to 'correct' me, where your evidence failed to move the dial, and in many instances corroborated exactly what I've published, and you were personally ignorant enough not to be able to make the distinction.
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You HAVE provided materials which are presented anecdotally, which I've requested as a full transcript from Hucho, Howell, Wolf, etc., which fell on deaf eyes.
1) You say that Thomas Wolf says I'm wrong about Porsche 911 spoilers, then, in his quote, he says the same thing about them as I. But of course, I'm wrong, and he's right. Confused, as anyone under the circumstances would be, I request the actual dialogue hoping to discover where your brain went off he rails, but I'm met with silence.
Under Abraham Lincoln's metric, you are exhibiting cowardice, and it's important to call things as they are, even if you interpret it as abuse.
And I guarantee you that it will continue as long as you choose to hide under the skirts of your mentors, denying the accused, admissible evidence.
In the United States, you would already be in jail for what you've done.
You attack with your tongue. I defend myself with mine. It's very simple.

More pure baloney. Just garbage, mixed with your normal personal abuse.

[JulianEdgar]

Originally Posted by aerohead

a) wind tunnels
b) flow separation
c) adverse pressure gradients
d) sectional density
e) parametrics
f) spoilers
g) pressure recovery
h) US Patents
i) downwash
j) attached vortices
k) effective fineness ratio
l) lift
m) diffusers
n) ground clearance
o) drag reduction
p) 'optimum' shapes
q) streamline spacing comprehension
r) tufts
s) mathematics

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It's good that you have listed the areas where you make so many mistakes in what you post here.

But people have no need to take my word for it - they can go and read the aero textbooks, or talk to a few professional car aerodynamicists, and quickly see for themselves. In fact, far better to do that than to believe what I say.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by JulianEdgar

I have been lucky enough to have been working directly with the aerodynamic experts who write the books and papers you read.

Think about the difference. There's a big one.

Same as I am doing now on my new history of suspension book.

* I would recognize Hucho as one for whom I've read, book-wise. And I've already qualified him as the only member of your team I recognize which has been personally associated with vehicles of significant low drag. Not only did I read Hucho, I followed his parametrics and to good effect.
* One with a six-figure salary, free laboratory, and free materials might be expected to 'produce' something.
* PhDs, in the United States, on condition of their doctorate degree, are required to publish, regularly, so that doesn't strike me as anything unusual.
* I don't know what your PhDs drive, but I've driven some of the highest fuel economy cars since 1974, to help pay homage to what the PhDs published.
* I would have to strain myself to consider any product Jaguar or Land Rover ever produced which moved the ball, in a timely fashion. Maybe 40-years after the fact.
* Thomas Wolf talked of the 911 spoiler just as I. That backfired on you.
* Jeff Howell came up with the same drag value for an 18% body length diffuser after you jumped me for saying the same thing about the same diffuser from a different author.
* You've publicly discounted the value and data from both DARKO and A2 Wind Tunnels, while Hucho has doesn't appear to have a problem with either of them.
The store's closing in a few minutes. I'll pick back up on this next week, if I haven't gone out of town.