Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Hybrids
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-01-2010, 01:50 AM   #21 (permalink)
Pokémoderator
 
cfg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,864

1999 Saturn SW2 - '99 Saturn SW2 Wagon
Team Saturn
90 day: 40.49 mpg (US)
Thanks: 439
Thanked 528 Times in 355 Posts
KITT222 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by KITT222 View Post
...

The off-the-shelf 4-cylindar engines are 2.4, 2.2, and 2.0 liter variations, as of now at least from what I know. The one in the Volt is a 1.4. Not sure if it was purpose made for the Volt, but the turbo version is in the base Cruze. The Cruze will also have a 1.8, I think.

...
The 1.4 is off the shelf. The Ecotec 4-banger has been as low as 1.1 liters :

GM Family 1 engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There were considering an Ecotec 1.0 3-banger from the Opel Corsa (you'll also see the 1.4 in the engine option list) :

Opel Corsa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, they claimed it was too "rough", aka noticeable to the driver when it engaged.

CarloSW2

__________________

What's your EPA MPG? Go Here and find out!
American Solar Energy Society
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 04-01-2010, 06:42 PM   #22 (permalink)
Ecomodder en route
 
KITT222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South of the Cities, Minnesota
Posts: 190

Vib - '04 Pontiac Vibe base
Thanks: 10
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfg83 View Post
KITT222 -



The 1.4 is off the shelf. The Ecotec 4-banger has been as low as 1.1 liters :

GM Family 1 engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There were considering an Ecotec 1.0 3-banger from the Opel Corsa (you'll also see the 1.4 in the engine option list) :

Opel Corsa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, they claimed it was too "rough", aka noticeable to the driver when it engaged.

CarloSW2
Didnt know that. Why havent smaller motors been in previous cars then? Something with being underpowered? Too 'noticeable'? Help me with that. I guess the Ecotec series is reliable enough, so why fix whats not broken?
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 07:31 PM   #23 (permalink)
Pokémoderator
 
cfg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,864

1999 Saturn SW2 - '99 Saturn SW2 Wagon
Team Saturn
90 day: 40.49 mpg (US)
Thanks: 439
Thanked 528 Times in 355 Posts
KITT222 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by KITT222 View Post
Didnt know that. Why havent smaller motors been in previous cars then? Something with being underpowered? Too 'noticeable'? Help me with that. I guess the Ecotec series is reliable enough, so why fix whats not broken?
Go to European car websites and you will usually see maybe 5 engine options for one car. Here in the USA we have far fewer because of the lack of diesel options and the expectation that a car must have fast 0-60 times. We are about to get the Ford Fiesta, but there are even smaller cars in the EU like the Ford Ka. Microcars make more sense in the narrow streets of "Medieval" EU cities.

Regarding more noticeable, remember that the driver doesn't start the engine, the ECU/PCM decides when to start the engine. GM wanted this to be transparent to the driver. They determined that the 3-banger was too noticeable, especially when they added a turbo. Here is my source :

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...der-12005.html
Quote:
... why GM went with the 1.4 L non-turbo 4 cylinder engine and found out some other interesting things.
For one thing, per Nitz, "the 1.4L NA four has better brake-specific fuel consumption than the 1.0L turbo when used in steady state mode, as it will be in the Volt application."
Also Nitz claims the four cylinder engine will provide for a smoother transition from EV to range extension saying "the objective is to keep the engine off and when the engine comes on, you don’t want to know it’s on. You want it really smooth and four cylinder is smoother than a three."
Nitz also noted that the four cylinder has a lower cost and that when the turbocharging architecture is added to the 3-cylinder engine, the non-turbo four cylinder engine setup is actually lighter.
CarloSW2
__________________

What's your EPA MPG? Go Here and find out!
American Solar Energy Society
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 10:29 PM   #24 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 21,763

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 53.56 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 61.98 mpg (US)

Fancy Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 58.72 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 66.29 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,478
Thanked 6,281 Times in 3,250 Posts
Thread moved out of "fossil fuel free" and into the "hybrid" forum.

Despite GM's insistence, I'm not convinced that a vehicle carrying a gasoline engine (even if it doesn't directly drive the wheels) isn't a hybrid.

Certainly it's not "fossil fuel free"!
__________________
Latest mods: 3-cylinder Mitsubishi Mirage. EcoMods now in progress...
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2010, 10:31 PM   #25 (permalink)
...beats walking...
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: .
Posts: 6,191
Thanks: 179
Thanked 1,521 Times in 1,122 Posts
...maybe GM means the "Fossel" is free, but the "fuel" isn't?!?!
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2010, 12:37 AM   #26 (permalink)
Ecomodder en route
 
KITT222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South of the Cities, Minnesota
Posts: 190

Vib - '04 Pontiac Vibe base
Thanks: 10
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfg83 View Post
KITT222 -



Go to European car websites and you will usually see maybe 5 engine options for one car. Here in the USA we have far fewer because of the lack of diesel options and the expectation that a car must have fast 0-60 times. We are about to get the Ford Fiesta, but there are even smaller cars in the EU like the Ford Ka. Microcars make more sense in the narrow streets of "Medieval" EU cities.

Regarding more noticeable, remember that the driver doesn't start the engine, the ECU/PCM decides when to start the engine. GM wanted this to be transparent to the driver. They determined that the 3-banger was too noticeable, especially when they added a turbo. Here is my source :

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...der-12005.html


CarloSW2
I did notice the several engine options the several times I type .co.uk into the search bar. The Cruze alone has i think 8 variations (auto transmission options were included as a variation) and here in America there's i think 6 for the Cobalt, auto tranny option included as a variation.Only thing is that a few of the Cruze engines dont have an auto option. They have like 4 diesels. Thats why they have more motor options than we do. Wow. Who'd thought that a larger engine was lighter, cheaper, and easier to manage. I know about those micro 'city cars' I call them. The Matiz gets excellent fuel economy, but its for those in the city because of its size. Problem is, we arent an urban country, we have freeways. Lots and lots of freeways. People want to get to point B faster and faster. Cars would be faster and more economical if they stayed smaller. The Cobalt is my example. Its larger, and more efficient than its predecessor, the Cavalier. Just imagine how great the fuel economy would be if they just re-did the car in the same size as the Cavi? The 'car bloat' leads each car to be bigger and bigger, yet more efficient than the last. If they were to stay small, imagine how great fuel economy would be!
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2010, 12:52 AM   #27 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
The Atomic Ass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Mason, OH
Posts: 528

Priinochio - '17 Toyota Prius Two Eco
90 day: 65.92 mpg (US)
Thanks: 11
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee View Post
I HATE scrolling through digital temp, blower, and vent settings!
My mother had an '83 Buick Riviera with a similar, push button kind of setup. It sucked hard. (especially after the buttons started dying)
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2010, 05:18 AM   #28 (permalink)
Pokémoderator
 
cfg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,864

1999 Saturn SW2 - '99 Saturn SW2 Wagon
Team Saturn
90 day: 40.49 mpg (US)
Thanks: 439
Thanked 528 Times in 355 Posts
KITT222 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by KITT222 View Post
I did notice the several engine options the several times I type .co.uk into the search bar. The Cruze alone has i think 8 variations (auto transmission options were included as a variation) and here in America there's i think 6 for the Cobalt, auto tranny option included as a variation.Only thing is that a few of the Cruze engines dont have an auto option. They have like 4 diesels. Thats why they have more motor options than we do. Wow. Who'd thought that a larger engine was lighter, cheaper, and easier to manage. I know about those micro 'city cars' I call them. The Matiz gets excellent fuel economy, but its for those in the city because of its size. Problem is, we arent an urban country, we have freeways. Lots and lots of freeways. People want to get to point B faster and faster. Cars would be faster and more economical if they stayed smaller. The Cobalt is my example. Its larger, and more efficient than its predecessor, the Cavalier. Just imagine how great the fuel economy would be if they just re-did the car in the same size as the Cavi? The 'car bloat' leads each car to be bigger and bigger, yet more efficient than the last. If they were to stay small, imagine how great fuel economy would be!
I think this is a good example of the USA Ford Focus :



Two engines, same displacement, 2 trannys, leaving 4 configurations. Now here's the UK Focus :



8 different engine displacements, 7 gas configurations and 6 diesel configurations for 13 total configurations.

And here's the Opel Astra :

[EDIT: I swapped the picture out because I mixed up the Volt and Cruze engine. Modified image below. Sorry!!!!]


5 engine displacements, 7 gas configurations and 5 diesel configurations for 12 total configurations.

CarloSW2
__________________

What's your EPA MPG? Go Here and find out!
American Solar Energy Society

Last edited by cfg83; 04-07-2010 at 11:53 PM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to cfg83 For This Useful Post:
bwilson4web (04-02-2010), KITT222 (04-02-2010)
Old 04-05-2010, 03:42 PM   #29 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
orange4boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,220

The Golden Egg - '93 Toyota Previa DX
90 day: 31.91 mpg (US)

Chewie - '03 Toyota Prius
90 day: 57 mpg (US)

The Spaceship - '00 Honda Insight
Thanks: 86
Thanked 263 Times in 151 Posts
In defence of some high tech vehicles, they have their own appeal but need to be modded to bring out the best. I don't think it's the high tech that's the problem.

I don't know about the Volt, but the Prius is very high tech automatic hybrid vehicle and an enjoyable one to drive. It handles well. You can still control the transition between EV and gas somewhat which has it's own unique pleasure. The engineering is still a thing of beauty and the drive train is pleasingly simple. There is no way to avoid a certain drive by potentiometer feel in an electric car though. I have to say I don't miss the power band lag of a standard ICE configuration.

The gen1 Prius has the three knob HVAC (Still the best config. like Franks f150) with climate control but like Peter I wish it had a full range of gauges. I had a Graham scanner for a while that gave me a choice of 50 sensors to watch, of which 4 could be selected for viewing at any given time. Geek heaven.

I think the manufacturers are missing the geek factor in these cars although they seem to give the muscle car crowd their fix of old school gauges. They know damn well that the early adopters will be eco-nerds so why the lack of gauges?
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2010, 03:37 PM   #30 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: jefferson city, mo
Posts: 60

klr 650 - '08 kawasaki klr 650
Thanks: 2
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
what about the nissan leaf add a solar panel to that and drive without gas

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Tags
chevy, review, volt

Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"The Volt" May BE SCRAPPED!- NEVER BUILT!! Jammer Hybrids 460 08-22-2013 08:08 PM
What Does a Chevy Volt Sound Like? Matt Herring Off-Topic Tech 19 10-24-2009 06:54 PM
New Info On Chevy Volt Battery Matt Herring EcoModding Central 1 10-23-2008 03:19 PM
Chevy Volt and GM Get Big Boost From $700B Bailout Vote Today Matt Herring EcoModding Central 15 10-09-2008 05:20 AM
More doubt thrown at the chevy volt SVOboy Fossil Fuel Free 1 04-22-2008 07:27 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com