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Old 01-23-2012, 06:31 PM   #111 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ecky View Post
Just curious, what's the current status on the Zing! ? (If I were an investor, what would you report to me?)
I am married to my biggest investor. I generally tell her: "No! Please don't come after me with that knife again."

Actually, things seem to be on track to have four of the two-seaters finished this year. We won't loose money on every one of them, and by the fourth, will have production pretty well figured out. The Atlanta NPR station was out to do an interview last week, we have a big PR event lined up out west, we'll do one of the Vetter challenges, etc. We will be ready to scale up by the end of the year, and will begin taking deposits for the 2013 production models after the first 2012 version is on the road.

I've been getting interesting requests and suggestions for further models (and have planned along those lines, but I don't envision producing another version until this one is really well-established. I want to avoid, like the plague, the Aptera syndrome, where the money disappears and there is not one customer vehicle on the road. Rather than "Go Big or Go Home," we'll "Go Reasonable, and Stay in Business."

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Old 01-23-2012, 06:59 PM   #112 (permalink)
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So when someone blanketly says that CVT and Manuals are equal, I will always reserve the right to protest
I'm sorry but the committee has met, and revoked your right to protest. Henceforth, you must take my word as gospel, no matter how ludicrous it seems. Rest assured that we will notify you when your right to voice your opinion is restored.

Your point is well taken. However, I think your complaint is not against automatics and CVTs so much as against their typical implementations. It would not be difficult to implement (at design time) clutches in each to allow pulse and glide.

In another post you wrote this:
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Hybrids are at a disadvantage compared to a driver with good technique.
Ignoring the TDI's (which have the advantage of being diesels) I think you'd be hard pressed to find a hypermiled 3500 lb car that gets 50 mpg, like the Prius does. Aside from the ability to do regen, hybrids also have relatively smaller (and therefore more efficient) engines, and additional efficiency measures that would make otherwise make driveability poor.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:51 PM   #113 (permalink)
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I think Ken is correct in separating vehicle efficiency measurements vs driver efficiency measurements as much as possible.
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Old 01-23-2012, 08:19 PM   #114 (permalink)
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The EPA (and the X-Prize) account for both the electricity and the fuel burned on a drive. The EPA uses an equivalency of 33.7kWh / gallon of E10 gasoline. The X-Prize also puts E85 and diesel onto an equivalency with E10.

So, MPGe is only really useful to compare different energy sources with a common denominator. The Aptera 300MPGe number would be better if we also knew the conditions of the test.

Edison2 competed in the X-Prize with E85, and they got 110Mpge on the EPA Combined test. They now have built an electric version called the VLCe, and it got 245MPGe on the same EPA Combined test.

Back on topic: Ken do you know an average Wh/mile kind of number for your 39 mile drive? And getting 100MPG in charging mode is an excellent achievement!
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Old 01-23-2012, 08:26 PM   #115 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ken Fry View Post
I certainly hope you are still driving in 12 years... I'll be 73 then too. My dad just gave his Camry to my daughter, realizing (openly) that he doesn't need it much, and (internally I imagine) that he is potentially dangerous. At 92, He thinks of you and me as young pups.

Funny... right in the middle of this post, my dad called. He'd given his doctor a list of 18 complaints, and was concerned that the doc didn't really do anything. As he read through the list, I thought "Oh no -- he's describing me!" Forgetful... check. Get up in the middle of the night to pee... check.

How did this happen?? Weren't we just in high school?
Pop turns 91 this May 8th. He hypermiled his B17 in WW2 to compensate for the bullet and flack holes in his self sealing tanks. Here is a picture of his left wing after another B17 dropped it through his wing when it was hit by flack on the bomb run. White phosphorus thermite cluster bomb. When he got back to his base they removed the wing and replaced with another wing that was painted. After that the plane would not fly straight due to the painted wing, and they had no paint remover to get the paint off.

Oh yeah I almost forgot, forgetful, check. middle of the night trip to the bathroom, check, LOL I have an aunt that smoked from age 12 to age 92, she just turned 100 this last week. May we be cursed with their presence for a long time, eh .

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Old 01-23-2012, 08:42 PM   #116 (permalink)
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Ken and OldM, don't get me wrong, you guys are doers, and I respect that very much. But I do get concerned when the myth that people are too stupid to learn is perpetuated.

Usually I see it from engineering types as the problem for their particular solution, and as a people myself, I know it just isn't true.

Yes, standardized test routines like the epa drive cycle are invaluable when trying to predict how the average joe will do, and is as good a metric as any for comparing one vehicle to another in general. But the engineering types do not seem to want a path for people to learn and become smarter (job security?).

Hypermiler is a common word these days, it isn't considered as nerdy as it once was, things do change. So lets be careful when "marketing" our solutions that we don't throw people in general under the hopelessly stupid bus.
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Old 01-23-2012, 08:55 PM   #117 (permalink)
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Agreed people need to become smarter motorists. How/what form of education campaign would be effective?

I don't see the auto industry doing ANYTHING to educate about vehicle choice, idling, warming up, maintenance, driving technique, etc.
I don't see any public service campaigns from govt re: the above either.
I don't see the material being covered in driver's ed (but then I wouldn't know. Is it?)
I don't see it in schools, I don't see it on billboards, I don't see it on the news, I don't see it in other media, I don't see it at gas stations, I don't see it at auto parts stores, I don't see it in enthusiast magazines, I DON'T SEE IT ANYWHERE BUT IN A FEW FORUMS.
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:03 PM   #118 (permalink)
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My parents always tell me about getting 30 MPG in their Eldorados when they drive up the Eastern Shore to Maryland to do a little gambling. Brother gets 46 MPG in his Prius.
I have converted a few, but I still have a brother that drives a Nissan Pathfinder to work, about a 50 miles round trip at 15 MPG if he is lucky.

Even today a Toyota Tacoma blows by me with a red light ahead, then whips over into my lane so I can't coast down to allow the traffic to get up to speed. After a couple of more miles and 3 more instances where I coast past him while the traffic starts to move away from the light, he finally gets ahead of me for the last time. I don't quit trying to teach people that it takes very little real effort to increase your mileage by 25% for most people, and they are usually surprised when they ride in the car when I am driving.

My step daughter was amazed watching me getting 35 MPG in her Murano at 60 MPH on the Interstate.

Do you think a book on efficient driving would actually sell?

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Old 01-23-2012, 09:11 PM   #119 (permalink)
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Quote:
Do you think a book on efficient driving would actually sell?
Not until gas costs so much it displaces cell phones or food from people's budgets. (note I listed cell phones AHEAD of food )
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:16 PM   #120 (permalink)
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dcb,
Sorry,
but you are uot of touch if you think hypermiling is a common word. Not sure what 'bell curve' subset you are hangin with.....

I am always ammused at each person's 'view' of the world.
If 1% of the population knew what that word meant I would be stunned. Heck, if 1/10 of 1% knew i'd be surprised.

For example, the word "long-term care". Tell me what it means. and dont google, just of the top of your head.

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