new member 2007 Miles ZX40S

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by cbaker

OK, I got the ammeter and shunt installed. I've been driving too aggressively! If I need to stay below 100 amps I'm going to have to change my ways.

This is a 5 speed tranny. I finally found reverse. Second seems shorter than the original and third seems longer. When I took a few hills the way I've been doing it at WOT in fourth, the meter shot to 150 immediately. Back off to halfway and it came down to 100. I was still able to maintain 29mph. Thanks for all the help on this. I'm lucky I haven't “zorched” something already.

I have the gear ratios and final drive for the stock 4sp that should be in the miles, might have to compare to the daihatsu 5sp, maybe they geared a little lower because of the 5 gears?

In any event at 150amps I don't think you will zorch a big motor, my little one can tolerate that for a some time before it would overheat, in your case 150amps + acceleration events likely gets you to the 1 hour rating which means you can drive the way you were doing for about an hour non stop, if you coast, sit around or drive below that amount for a period of time the motor will have a chance to cool somewhat.

Cheers
Ryan

[cbaker]

Thanks again Ryan. I'm adjusting my habits to float the amps. The tranny upgrade with good batteries meets the medium speed goals I had for this vehicle. I'm looking forward to weather that's a little cooler, but that's really my only complaint!

[Mark1801]

Hey Ryan and cbaker,
Help me catch up to you guys. Id love to be making speed adjustments but cant get it running yet. I got this car under the suspicion that the batteries were dead but seem to be good. There has been some sloppy rewiring in the back two battery boxes including two BMSs disconnected. I get a BAT ERR on the dash and the car won't move. There is no power to the controller, Curtis 1238-6501. But there is 77 volts waiting on the positive side of the main contactor and nothing coming out the other side when I turn the key. There are three low voltage connections to the contactor, two from the controller and 1 from firewall area, the keyswitch presumably. Any ideas how I can rewire to get the controller power and see if the motor turns? I know Ryan got around his BAT ERR and added his own Voltmeter and ammeter, but my car is more similar to cbakers.

I'm not sure if the power is stopped to the contactor by the car ignition (or controller) when there is a bat err or when the batteries are "detected" low to prevent overdischarge, or if the contactor has failed, or if there is another related failure somewhere due to rewiring when new batteries were added. The car came from a lease situation and was reportedly serviced a year ago which is when it must have got the new batteries and questionable rewiring.
Mark

[cbaker]

I would love to help but that's just over my head. There were some service modules zipped on the Miles yahoo page, but I don't know if they are for your model. The logic tree might be the same unless the rewire is drastically different. I would think any place that services golf carts might have some idea or at least give advice on how to test through the circuits.
Sorry and good luck!

[Mark1801]

Originally Posted by cbaker

I would love to help but that's just over my head. There were some service modules zipped on the Miles yahoo page, but I don't know if they are for your model. The logic tree might be the same unless the rewire is drastically different. I would think any place that services golf carts might have some idea or at least give advice on how to test through the circuits.
Sorry and good luck!

Thanks cbaker. I'll check the service bulletins.

I was just thinking that the simplest way to close the main contactor to check the controller and the motor might be hooking up another wire to send the same voltage required to close the contactor as the ignition switch wire does. It could become a permanent addition on a toggle switch in the cabin and then I'd have have my own engine kill switch. Wonder what that voltage is....

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Mark1801

Thanks cbaker. I'll check the service bulletins.

I was just thinking that the simplest way to close the main contactor to check the controller and the motor might be hooking up another wire to send the same voltage required to close the contactor as the ignition switch wire does. It could become a permanent addition on a toggle switch in the cabin and then I'd have have my own engine kill switch. Wonder what that voltage is....

You are awefull close and on the right track, this car has an ignition switch just like any other car and it has very small wires and very poorly designed connectors to and from your ignition, on my car I had to shove some more wire in to get a low enough resistance for the car to turn on. Check under the dash on the column, hunting around you will likely find intermittant wires and connections, like any car it will not be all that fun.

An ohm meter (with extra long leads) going from the destination to the source is helpfull, wire afterall should not have much resistance (you hope)
Another thing is the grounds on this car are always crap, it doesn't hurt for your own future sanity (even if they are good now) to run some small wire back to the battery terminal from each critical ground (aka contactors, solenoid, dash)

Anyway The way this car works is
1. You turn on the ingition
2. The teeny tiny battery (which is many times failed) kicks the solenoid providing DC-DC power to all the 12v components and then the contactor for traction drive.
3. When you press on the gas a final contactor closes to provide traction power to the controller and motor

So to answer your other question the battery err message on the dash means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It really doesn't help in troubleshooting or anything else, just means a voltage to the dash is either too low, too high or intermittant or too much resistance somewhere, it mainly errors on 12v problems. My car has always run fine with or without the battery error message, to make it go away requires a lot of work and you may find that one of your modules (which are proprietary and non-purchasable) may be flakey.

So in other words you may want to just bypass the dash and hot wire the contactor through a switch.

Oh and Miles used to sell service manuals
Yahoo! Groups
maybe they still do?

Cheers
Ryan

[Mark1801]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

You are awefull close and on the right track, this car has an ignition switch just like any other car and it has very small wires and very poorly designed connectors to and from your ignition, on my car I had to shove some more wire in to get a low enough resistance for the car to turn on. Check under the dash on the column, hunting around you will likely find intermittant wires and connections, like any car it will not be all that fun.

An ohm meter (with extra long leads) going from the destination to the source is helpfull, wire afterall should not have much resistance (you hope)
Another thing is the grounds on this car are always crap, it doesn't hurt for your own future sanity (even if they are good now) to run some small wire back to the battery terminal from each critical ground (aka contactors, solenoid, dash)

Anyway The way this car works is
1. You turn on the ingition
2. The teeny tiny battery (which is many times failed) kicks the solenoid providing DC-DC power to all the 12v components and then the contactor for traction drive.
3. When you press on the gas a final contactor closes to provide traction power to the controller and motor

So to answer your other question the battery err message on the dash means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It really doesn't help in troubleshooting or anything else, just means a voltage to the dash is either too low, too high or intermittant or too much resistance somewhere, it mainly errors on 12v problems. My car has always run fine with or without the battery error message, to make it go away requires a lot of work and you may find that one of your modules (which are proprietary and non-purchasable) may be flakey.

So in other words you may want to just bypass the dash and hot wire the contactor through a switch.

Oh and Miles used to sell service manuals
Yahoo! Groups
maybe they still do?

Cheers
Ryan

This explains why I'm having trouble. Everything DC powers up on the car with no trouble, even the reverse horn. I have tested for power to the controller when the keys are in the on position, but not when depressing the pedal. As one might expect, I've been concerned that the controller and/or contactor are dead and have been trying to find a way to test them. But, there has been no power going to either. I'll retest everything with the pedal depressed (and the front end on jack stands to be safe). .

Thanks,
Mark

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Mark1801

I'll retest everything with the pedal depressed (and the front end on jack stands to be safe). .

Thanks,
Mark

Easier still press the pedal and release in a quite spot, you should here a click noise.

If not check the connections to and from the throttle pedal, mine was getting to the point of having too much resistance, a good clean up helped.

[cbaker]

Any advice on battery maintenance? I checked numbers today and from front to back it was
13.08
13.06
13.04
13.04
13.04
13.04
the voltmeter said 77.3, so it's off a volt, and was when I added up the old battery numbers.
Should I try and run the batteries down low before I charge, or does it matter?
Should I let the vehicle rest after my drive home before charging or just plug it in as soon as I get out?
Should I let it rest for a while after charging before I drive?
The numbers were higher when the batteries were brand new, like 13.23 or so. It could just be they are stabilizing. Or I damaged them somehow.
Sometimes my daily ride will only be 25 miles or so, and when I get home the voltmeter will be around 70v. I'm sure after they rest from the drive they come back up to at least 72 or so. I was wondering if since they are not drained, it might affect the length the charger runs.
Thanks

[Mark1801]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

You are awefull close and on the right track, this car has an ignition switch just like any other car and it has very small wires and very poorly designed connectors to and from your ignition, on my car I had to shove some more wire in to get a low enough resistance for the car to turn on. Check under the dash on the column, hunting around you will likely find intermittant wires and connections, like any car it will not be all that fun.

An ohm meter (with extra long leads) going from the destination to the source is helpfull, wire afterall should not have much resistance (you hope)
Another thing is the grounds on this car are always crap, it doesn't hurt for your own future sanity (even if they are good now) to run some small wire back to the battery terminal from each critical ground (aka contactors, solenoid, dash)

Anyway The way this car works is
1. You turn on the ingition
2. The teeny tiny battery (which is many times failed) kicks the solenoid providing DC-DC power to all the 12v components and then the contactor for traction drive.
3. When you press on the gas a final contactor closes to provide traction power to the controller and motor

So to answer your other question the battery err message on the dash means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It really doesn't help in troubleshooting or anything else, just means a voltage to the dash is either too low, too high or intermittant or too much resistance somewhere, it mainly errors on 12v problems. My car has always run fine with or without the battery error message, to make it go away requires a lot of work and you may find that one of your modules (which are proprietary and non-purchasable) may be flakey.

So in other words you may want to just bypass the dash and hot wire the contactor through a switch.

Oh and Miles used to sell service manuals
Yahoo! Groups
maybe they still do?

Cheers
Ryan

I've been busier than a port-a-jon fly with other work but wish I could get back to this project more often. I do get a click from the throttle pedal area, But no voltage to contactor from "keyswitch". No low voltage power to controller either. So I sent 12v to controller independently and, as it should, the controller sent 12v to two lines of aux power to contactor but contactor doesn't close even when I send another 12v via what I'm calling the keyswitch line. How much voltage/amps does this coil require to close? The spec sheet on website for this contactor has a range.

the contactor spec sheet is http://www.ametekswitch.com/download/JBA%20-%204603.pdf

Do you two use this contactor and if so, what's running to it?

Also for future searchers on this car too ( 2008 Miles ZX40S-AD ) the controller manual http://www.evparts.com/cms/picts/pro...C%20Manual.pdf
I'll upload this to the yahoo group sometime.
Thanks
Mark