Acetone...is there a conspiracy?

[Lazarus]

Originally Posted by 90crxHF

My question is, has anyone here tried the stuff?? So it eats at aluminum, has this been proven? It eats at gasonline gaskets in the fuel system, has this been proven? Sorry, I just want to see some data from guys who seem to have a better handle on the differernt variables that come into play... And you ecomodder guys are the ones to test this....

The subject has been beat to death. Do a search you'll kind all kind of threads on it.

[90crxHF]

Oh, I understand that this has been beat to death, so no worries guys, I'll just search around on the site.

[rmay635703]

I hear many who say acetone will destroy your fuel pump, if it does ethanol fuel will as well, only older cars that are not ethanol rated will fail.

That said,

Acetone can affect fuel economy both positively and negatively, that is known.

Acetone was used on raceways at EXTREMELY high concentrations as were moth balls, benzene derivatives and other sorts of hydrocarbons. That is known and still going on (many threads on that if you look as well)

Acetone can screw up your sensors, especially O2 that is VERY well documented
(generally it doesn't affect wideband)

Acetone is a major component in many over the counter snake oils for cleaning your engine which it can do that is very well known.

Now to my personal experience. Every vehicle I own is affected differently by acetone. I used it for over a year in the buick.

Here is what I've found, during the summer if it increases FE I can't tell beyond the margin of error, it appeared to be "slightly" higher

In the wintertime it moved my FE up approx 3mpg (I say that but its over many years average compared to 1 season average) Generally it appeared to increase the wintertime FE more the colder it was (comparitively) In other words when its -10 and I'm driving in town my FE is usually around 16mpg acetone it usually was over 20mpg in town but the amount of difference leveled out as temperature rose.

ANOTHER VERY DISTURBING DETAIL! The scanguage is DRASTICALLY affected by acetone on most vehicles. My Buick Scanguage was reading higher and higher FE as I was slowly filling the acetone out. It was reading as much as 50% above what I was actually getting, this behavior grew as temperatures got colder and continued to grow without stop until all the acetone was out at which point it started reading correctly without a fudge factor. And obviously my REAL FE only increased a comparitively small amount. The same behavior on my 01 dodge but only about 30% off.

I believe this is the reason why many folks mistakenly believe acetone doubles your FE because it tricks guages.

Also that is the reason why some cars get better FE, their paticular sensors lean out the car with acetone, other cars get better because it cleans all the crud out much like e85.

I believe a single tank with a small amount of acetone on a GOOD RUNNING MODERN CAR will do no harm and is an easy test so long as you run more than one to base your decision off of.

In other words acetone can affect fuel economy depending on your cars sensors but the amount it does generally is not worth the cost. Mystery Oil, ground/powdered napathalene and 2stroke motor oil have more of an effect if your willing to have a mess, a stink and health problems.

Cheers
Ryan

[Lazarus]

Originally Posted by 90crxHF

Oh, I understand that this has been beat to death, so no worries guys, I'll just search around on the site.

That did seem a little harsh. Sorry. If you use the search function you will be able to find lots of threads on Acetone.

What you'll find is that it's inconclusive. Some it does some it doesn't. No one here has a dyno where you can test it and the tank to tank variabilities make it impossible to do A-B-A testing.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Lazarus

What you'll find is that it's inconclusive. Some it does some it doesn't. No one here has a dyno where you can test it and the tank to tank variabilities make it impossible to do A-B-A testing.

But not impossible to compare longer averages. And it is pretty cut and dry what it does.

Also Even if there were a dyno to test it each vehicle type responds differently to it as it just messes up your sensors, old vehicles carb'd will exhibit one type of behavior, OBDI still different, OBDII different and wideband still another outcome.

So the only way to know would be to verify your vehicle is 100% ethanol compatible and in good running order and run tests on sets of trips you run often (you have to have a pretty good routine to tell), it will either show a slight gain, a slight loss or no effect depending on the vehicles sensors. The amount of the gain or loss will let you know whether you can trust its having an effect.

If you get a slight gain and your vehicle is safe to use ethanol and you are willing to loose a fuel pump continue and see if the trend continues.

If you have an A/F sensor you can tell immediately if acetone is tricking your sensors. Scanguage can tell you as well if it goes and gives non-sense type FE.

As a side note a 50/50 mix of e85 and 89octain e10 makes my v8 Dodge get better wintertime FE, I will keep a running average again and see if it continues but I drive ALMOST EXACTLY the same routes repeatably in the same way every day every week, every year. Only differences are temperature and wind. 3rd tank with an increase in a row, same FE each time, this tank I haven't been good so I will have to see how much of a real effect it has on my FE for the week.

Cheers
Ryan

[suspectnumber961]

I don't necessarily support these things...I just don't live in a cardboard box and peek out now and then...afraid of what I might find....which is the attitude of many on the forum.

I've followed this guy on a Yahoo group ever since he first started posting about this...and still can't tell whether it is BS or not. In fact...I tested 1 oz per 1 G in my wagon...but saw no mpg gain...just smoother running. Need to test it by slightly closing the choke next.

I suspect it might result from an quirk in the Ford EFI system...but don't know....could be a quirk in this guys mind too.

Originally Posted by fusion210

Furthermore, you support every out there BS snake oil way of increasing your mileage.

Troll anyone?

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post161491
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...oad-11784.html
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...red-11235.html
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tive-9011.html
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...html#post49106
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ypes-7206.html
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post139441

It's the same stuff over and over.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by suspectnumber961

I've followed this guy on a Yahoo group ever since he first started posting about this...and still can't tell whether it is BS or not. In fact...I tested 1 oz per 1 G in my wagon...but saw no mpg gain...just smoother running. Need to test it by slightly closing the choke next.

Why follow it? Old vehicles should only be affected by the percentage alone and acetones burn characteristics are well known, you vehicle likely has no sensors thus such a small amount also has no effect on octane or a signifcant affect on energy content.

Originally Posted by suspectnumber961

I suspect it might result from an quirk in the Ford EFI system...but don't know....could be a quirk in this guys mind too.

More likely that is the reason as I alluded to and likely he is going by the scanguage alone as opposed to what his REAL fuel economy is. The scanguage CAN be tricked by placing things in the tank that aren't gas, ethanol does it as well, which I why I only go by my actual read fuel economy not by the scanguage.

Many here seem to believe an O2 sensor isn't affected by unburnt aeromatics, nothing is further from the truth, the question is do you want this?

Also most here aren't willing to test it at all giving the excuse they don't have a dyno, with a scanguage you can tell if your sensors are being cooked. If its giving non-sense its likely sensors being affected.

And whatever you determine on your own about acetone it is likely correct, I have tested it in many vehicles and it DOES NOT improve fuel economy enough to really justify it on any of them, but it DOES improve fuel economy on some of them by rather small amounts.

Cheers
Ryan

[suspectnumber961]

An '85 Tbird has no ability to use a Scangauge...he uses tank refills.

No this isn't your mother's use of acetone...this "method" uses quite a bit more.

I can't say I've verified a gain from testing acetone...and am cautious about using it in a vehicle with an electric fuel pump...I'd use a top lube with it for sure.

With my old wagon...I test a lot of stuff...it's still running...carb and mechanical fuel pump.

But his Tbird is EFI...maybe the first year with it?

[PaleMelanesian]

I've looked outside the box. You can more than double your mileage, without using any acetone.

[Coyote X]

My setup is a megasquirt computer with wideband O2, audio knock detector, and EGT sensor so I can monitor and adjust anything about the engine. Acetone will change the fuel tune and slightly change the spark tuning. Once you retune the engine to run correctly with it then you are right back to exactly the same mpg as before as long as the fuel system was clean and in good shape to start with.

A dirty engine will get better mileage with acetone or any other small bottle of injector cleaner stuff. But after a few tanks you can stop using it and get the same mileage. A stock computer car might get better mileage with acetone all the time but it is because the engine is out of tune slightly. I would rather not make the engine run out of tune due to increased wear from lean running or knock. You can accomplish the same thing by messing with the signals from the O2 sensor and not bother with the acetone.

I say if your car calls for 87 octane but runs like crap on it now or it doesn't idle as good as it did when it was new then run acetone in it for 4-6 tanks to get it cleaned up. I would prob run like 1oz per gallon so it will be strong enough to actually clean it quickly. Once it is clean I would quit using it. I run it in my cars every so often since it is much cheaper than injector cleaner and does the same job. Every 5-10 tanks or so I might mix in 3oz per 10 gal just to keep everything clean.