Another win for the idiots.

[MetroMPG]

Yes, I've been reading this thread. (I've received a few PM's / reports.)

Stop the personal insults. There are already multiples here, including by the O.P.

(And THANKS to those of you who are still able to communicate without resorting to them.)

This topic is forum poison. It's been declared off-limits elsewhere (CMPG?), and from the perspective of a forum admin/benevolent dictator, that's understandable & appealing, regardless of whether there's any legitimacy to the concept.

EDIT/SUGGESTION: to those wanting to explore the topic and avoid "the usual outcome", adopt a different approach.

[oil pan 4]

If some one with out delusions of grandeur wants to build an HHO cell and test it with out making all kinds of extraordinary claims then I say go for it.
But for some reason HHO just seem to always attract those kinds of people.
The few times I have seen builds from what seem like curious reasonable people they start building an HHO cell. Document and put up pics then when they get to the point where they start testing it you never hear from them again.
I can only surmise they were killed with their HHO cell exploded, the results were an embarrassment or initial results show that any further testing would be a complete waste of time or the conspiracy theorists favorite: the oil company got them.

Originally Posted by Old Mechanic

You mentioned 4%. By volume, weight, or energy content? Even if we assume that your postion is correct, Rusty, which is the simplest way to get past the "idiots" (post title) or the 60% savings (claimed by birk) or any other individual whose objective is to USE the credibility of the forum to SELL something which evidence does not support their claims,

I think you nailed it.
The HHO pushers are trying to hijack the only large creditable forum on the internet to push their pathological science.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

You will have to ask the scammers. Birk1 wasn't scamming. Hypermiler wasn't either. I certainly am not.

I'll withhold judgement on the first two mentioned. In your case (and I assure you I don't mean this as an insult, but as a simple statement of fact) I think you're a victim of the scam, and one of the quasi-religious variety who, once they/ve become emotionally invested in the belief, simply can't admit they're wrong. The classic example, I think, are the "MMR vaccine causes autism" crowd.

Then there is the other question. "Could there be any trace of truth to their claims"?

Why don't we try to find out.

You honestly think people haven't tried? The problem is that they've gotten no significant positive result, or even negative results, so the true believers ignore them.

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut

Those are very well known branches of science and you have ignored them in your searches.
...
If you feel it is a dead end, then why don't you drop out of the conversation. If you just want to heap your Google research on the subject, I can't stop you. But why don't you put into Google "ozone 40ppm combustion" and see a link to Reasearchgate and download a pdf from the SAE on how small amounts of ozone measurably affect combustion.

MY searches! YOU are responsible to back up your claims, not I.

Yup, I found the PDF you are referring to: http://www.researchgate.net/profile/...586dacfb000000

Check it out.
Notice the used engine type (Homogeneous charge compression ignition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).
Notice the conditions under which the ozone affects the combustion.
Our engines do not run pure iso-octane at 200°C (382°F) intake temp at over 30 bar (420 PSI).

I understand the reasons why they did so, and I can imagine there can be a benefit from seeding ozone into a regular engine.
But regular engines don't suffer from the problems that HCCI engines encounter, neither could they ever approach the efficiency of a well running HCCI engine no matter what you put in the intake.

Better keep civil and tone down. Remember real experts never boast their knowledge.

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

Remember real experts never boast their knowledge.

I noticed the HHO believers always go on and on about what they know. Even if they really don't know anything.
Remember the fuel vapor guy? The surface carb building HHO believer that told off the mods and "threatened" to reveal our true identities a few months back comes to mind.
He was often if not always wrong, never in doubt, talked big, couldn't back any of it up and didn't have the resources to deliver.

[vrmouseyd15b]

the discussion is way over my head, but the banter is hilarious!!
subscribed.

Thanks,
Victor

[gone-ot]

See, Unicorns are REAL, it is actually the people who are UNREAL (wink,wink).

[mcrews]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Yes, I've been reading this thread. (I've received a few PM's / reports.)

Stop the personal insults. There are already multiples here, including by the O.P.

(And THANKS to those of you who are still able to communicate without resorting to them.)

This topic is forum poison. It's been declared off-limits elsewhere (CMPG?), and from the perspective of a forum admin/benevolent dictator, that's understandable & appealing, regardless of whether there's any legitimacy to the concept.
.

when will this person appear.........

please step from behind the curtain!!!! lol

[stovie]

I came on this forum a few years ago stating that I have had good experience with a hydrogen reaction chamber on my GMC Sierra 2500. It got a solid 12 mpg before I put the "reaction chamber" on and the next three tanks we got a solid 15 mpg showing a solid 25% increase in fuel economy and got bashed by frank lee and a couple others about it. No I do not have evidence because I did this a year before joining ecomodder. All I can do is state my experience with it and let you guys make your own decision on it yea know!!

[mcrews]

Stovie,
With a 25% increase I'd be selling kits and putting it on all my cars.
What happened?