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Old 01-20-2020, 06:26 PM   #21 (permalink)
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You're putting a semigluteal carb in your intake is what you're doing. Any perceived mileage improvement - especially if you're just reading computer estimates on the instrument panel - is going to be completely wrong due to the added fuel in the vaporizer not being monitored by the computer.

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Old 01-20-2020, 08:11 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Be aware that you will need to run a full tank through it to calibrate it, possibly two. I think I had mine within 1% after my second calibration. But until then it can at least show relative savings. For instance, you might let it idle and toggle the hydrogen system on and off and observe the measured gallons per hour, to see exactly how much difference there is in gasoline usage.
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Old 01-21-2020, 06:06 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Yes at this time my fuel vapor system is disconnected .

Once my vapor system is back in I can then monitor and record the results in a more real time situation .

I do agree it may take a a tank of fuel or two to really get the accuracy down to precision status , but in the meantime the base is something to work with .

For interest I did another project on my radio side and one can place two LCD units (or more) in parallel.This project I did use the I2C protocol but should work with parallel as the comms is essentially uni-directional .

This would be neat so the co driver can record same information simultaneously .Yesterday I had my son in the passenger seat relaying STFT percentages and injector pulse width as I was driving - was quite interesting .
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Old 01-21-2020, 08:26 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Something I do want to do is change the way the various menu's start.

It starts on CUSTOM -This is still strictly miles and gallons - missing code in arduino for liters and kilometers.

I would prefer to have instant L/100km to be the first on the screen or I will have to press the buttons for this each time I power up .

Alternately leave on permanently but still to measure stand by current drain once installed.

May also wave the pwm screen brightness to a pot on the unit for quick change as it also defaults to no backlight on start-up .If I do this then I lose the power save so will again check what I want to do long term.

Fortunately I found a monitoring point under the dash that is used for factory diagnostics on the VSS but injector I will have to go through firewall to harness or alternately T-in on ECU inside cab .
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Old 01-24-2020, 11:20 PM   #25 (permalink)
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bradington...you have not said what all this has done in improving your MPG. What was your car doing when you started?? And what is your best during you best days/week??

I tested HHO on a 2000 Mercury grand Marques, I got nothing.

That car got 30MPG @ 65MPH I first drove 300 Miles stock to confirm 30MPG @ 65MPH..then did testing with a flying reading, as in I hit 65MPH hit cruse and reset my MPGunio and read the MPG until pull off and turn around.

The only thing that worked was running a 16.4 A/F ratio and that gave 35MPG at 65MPH.

And the most HHO I was able to get was 6 liters per minute, and that drew 30 AMPs and was draining my battery and could not be used after dark.

I tested three HHO systems none worked. I even got a bottle of pure hydrogen and it made no differences...And I had the eifi system to tune every important sensor.

I also had exhaust temp monitors and injector duty cycle read outs.

Cold gas vaporizers can only pull the light parts of gasoline leaving you with sludge...

Hot gas vaporizers are VERY dangerous and can blow up your car.

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Old 01-25-2020, 04:47 PM   #26 (permalink)
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All noted and very true what you are saying .

I was not happy with the recent tank having 15,8 l /100 km - had heart failure when I filled up .

With this I took the decision to roll back .

1-Removed direct Cone filter - back to airbox.
2-Undid the PCV delete and filters, back to standard PCV workings.
3-Removed O2 efie as batteries were soft .
4-Removed fuel heater .(cause of the high fuel use without ECU compensation .)

What I did find in my recent investigation with a CRP 123 monitoring the pulse length is that the increase in pulse lengths with different loads on engine at idle .
This included aircon
drive lights
fog lights and
bright lights .

Interesting how the pulse length increases as the load on the engine is increased .

On my vehicle with no - load in neutral the pulse length remains constant through the rpm range up to 3000rpm .
Loads play the important part of the whole fuel economy issue .

Without my being able to re-map , I have been trying to curve something is not possible .
My last 6,58 l /100 km was highway driving using 15-16 :1 AFR by manually adjusting the MAP offset .

Back to drawing board .
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Old 01-25-2020, 05:36 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradlington View Post
All noted and very true what you are saying .

I was not happy with the recent tank having 15,8 l /100 km - had heart failure when I filled up .

With this I took the decision to roll back .

1-Removed direct Cone filter - back to airbox.

As a old timer I saw racers adding large hoses to their air filters and running them to the front and removing the high beam head lights to get fresh COLD air into the engines. Modern air boxes do that, those so called cold air filters allow the engine to breath under the hood hot air. The old idea of hot air burning fuel better may work with carbs but with injection it does not seem to work...cold air makes more HP and power seems to help MPG.

2-Undid the PCV delete and filters, back to standard PCV workings.
3-Removed O2 efie as batteries were soft

Here is one thing I learned you want to control the O2 BEHIND the cat...it controls fuel more that the first O2 sensor...

4-Removed fuel heater .(cause of the high fuel use without ECU compensation .)

Hot fuel is suppose to vaporize better...I would revisit that.

What I did find in my recent investigation with a CRP 123 monitoring the pulse length is that the increase in pulse lengths with different loads on engine at idle .
This included aircon
drive lights
fog lights and
bright lights .

Interesting how the pulse length increases as the load on the engine is increased .

On my vehicle with no - load in neutral the pulse length remains constant through the rpm range up to 3000rpm .
Loads play the important part of the whole fuel economy issue .

Without my being able to re-map , I have been trying to curve something is not possible .
My last 6,58 l /100 km was highway driving using 15-16 :1 AFR by manually adjusting the MAP offset .

Back to drawing board .
I was unable to cause any real change with my MAF system controller.

I was able to see what 16.4 would do by a laptop and a device by Zentronics which gave a Air /Fuel ratio readout and included a adjustment to change the A/F ratios. But as it took a number of mouse clicks for the two banks it was not something I wanted or could use daily.

Look up highway model pertaining to the 85 to 90s Camaros at https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/

That was where I found out about this hidden feature in their TPI PCMs...when turned the got 30 to 35 MPG highway, VS stock's 20/25...

Program faded in when condition's was good: light throttle and low load and would fad out when the above changed, with no bumps or feeling..smoothly.

I will be running such a system on my 383 in my van.

Another one I want to try is adding more EGR gasses, to A) reburn what was not burned the first time though the engine and as a way to displace incoming air and fuel and to lower chamber temps when running lean burns.

One last word of advice: Do only one change at a time and test and test it to be sure it helped.

Then do the next and test and test to see if it helped more or took away.

And so on with each idea.

Good luck.

Rich
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Old 01-26-2020, 02:41 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Thanks for all the information and time taken to relay .

Yes Fuel heater I will definately revisit as I was cock-sure after all the reading that it would give me a good start .

Firstly I was smelling much fuel in the engine bay and this was my main concern .
At one stage I thought I may have damaged injector seals OR have a stuck open injector .I was really worried .

So yes one thing at a time .If you are not aware of my fuel heater implementation - my manual required a radiator last year so I decided to go for the auto radiator which has the transmission heat exchanger built in in the base of the unit .
This I routed the fuel through and it did get nice and hot .

Again I was a bit concerned with cavitation which I could feel on the re-routed pipes .Also flow rate of heated fuel is another question mark .

When I do revisit I will heat the fuel via a long copper tube in order to reevaluate the impact with incremental steps .

My ongoing issue is my ECU is not really supported by any of the fancy phone apps and very little support is on the net .This is the major frustrating thing about my model .
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Old 01-26-2020, 04:12 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Your welcome, always interested in making some of these ideas work.

Here is a few more ideas.

The use of the transmission cooler is a fair idea, but you’re limited to only 195 degrees, IE the thermostat’s control temp.

The real question is what is the best temperature for fuel that will promote better vaporizing and not harm the injectors…??

Another old idea was an oil vapor separator allowing the engine to then draw in the lighter elements of this vapor and burn it as well.

And another one is to draw into the engine the gasoline vapor from the cars vapor recovery system. (I suggests looking this one up.)

As for PCMs check these out:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...olers&_sacat=0

Especially this one…

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Narrow-Band...75.c100623.m-1

I cannot say if they work, but they might…they claim to allow you to change the sensors feed to the PCM.

This one has New Thermostat Switching at proper operating temperature Tstat (Thermostat sensor) Quad “True Digital” Signal EFIE handles up to 4-02 Sensors
Adaptive Control for adapting to the Newer 25ms. Oxygen Sensors MAF/MAP Control for for leaning your fuel flow to your engine. IAT Control for adjusting and retarding your ignition timing. CTS Control for forcing your ECU to select leaner fuel mapping. Automatic Sequential Switching, following the ECU chain of command Take Control of your ECU and AFR.

I would try using one of these WITHOUT any HHO...HHo systems are a mess..I tried a few and they are just crap.

BUT tune with one of these alone and see what happens.

And as always good luck.

Rich
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Old 01-28-2020, 02:58 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Thanks for the information .

Yes I have a PWM to control the HHO which is mounted in the drive area.
I have an Efie ,MAP enhancer and IAT control .

My ECU is the really clever and throw what you want at it and it corrects itself .
Only the MAP enhancer allows some leeway where on open road I can lean out if under slight load ,otherwise it slowly corrects back to 14,7 on my aftermarket AFR .

The only way I am going to gain anything is altering my mapping which there is a good offset BUT my ECU there are no stock maps available and even the big professional tuning companies are not wanting to touch this year / model .Same response from many - not supported OR our software does not support that year .

The heated fuel is still something to consider with proper testing .I was really worried about the and loss of economy last time so rolled back .

For now I have some other priorities so the car mods are going to take a secondary focus for a while .

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