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Old 11-25-2012, 08:48 PM   #21 (permalink)
ron
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you should have been able to test the bearings when you changed the axle shafts. by rotating them back and forth with your fingers . if you didnt its not to late . raise the wheels of the ground , chock or ebrake the rear wheels , take the car out of gear and rotate the wheels . you should be able to id which side the problem is on push pull and load the wheel if you need to . keep us posted

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Old 11-25-2012, 09:16 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I did that test, actually, with a friend. Forgot to mention it. We tested all four wheel hub-bearing units this way but there was not much play in the wheel when we would push and pull on it. Maybe I'll do it again, taking video, and post a link here.
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:33 PM   #23 (permalink)
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you should FEEL the problem however slight it may be ,you should feel a diff between one wheel or the other . like gravel in one shoe .
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:37 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ron View Post
you should FEEL the problem however slight it may be ,you should feel a diff between one wheel or the other . like gravel in one shoe .
I'll do it again. I was so sure it was the CV joint because the front-right wheel has a lot more rolling friction when free-wheeling, and that's where the leaking cv joint was. Oh well. I'll post-up my results. Thanks for the input.
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See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.




Last edited by California98Civic; 11-25-2012 at 10:07 PM.. Reason: missing words
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Old 11-26-2012, 09:25 AM   #25 (permalink)
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This may be a silly question, but did you check the brake disc shield behind the front discs? I bumped mine when I replaced the half-shafts, and it was scraping on the back of the disc.
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:05 PM   #26 (permalink)
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This may be a silly question, but did you check the brake disc shield behind the front discs? I bumped mine when I replaced the half-shafts, and it was scraping on the back of the disc.
Thanks for this and your PM. I didn't check, but I will when I go back into this, maybe this coming weekend. But I think it's unlikely, since the sound is pretty much unchanged. A friend on facebook from a Bonneville racing family suggested maybe its some sort of "transfer bearing" in the transmission, connecting the drive axles to the gearing. But he agrees the hub bearings, the "races", are the most likely culprit. I'll test more this weekend and report. Thanks for following the tale.
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Old 12-28-2012, 06:59 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Update: more testing done

Test for front hub bearing units:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ron View Post
you should FEEL the problem however slight it may be ,you should feel a diff between one wheel or the other . like gravel in one shoe .
Did it. No unusual sounds and no play whatsoever. Totally within Honda spec.

Brake disc shield check:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleMelanesian View Post
...did you check the brake disc shield behind the front discs? I bumped mine when I replaced the half-shafts, and it was scraping on the back of the disc.
They're normal and in place, without contact against the discs.

So I am concluding that the bearing noise I hear is coming from the transmission, because all other possibilities that I know of seem to have been eliminated by testing: it's not the brake pads, rotors, hub units, CV joints, or wheel scraping.

QUESTION: Which bearing inside the transmission might make the sounds I am hearing? It is a constant sound, changing only with wheel RPMs, not engine RPMs. If while rolling I turn the wheel slightly left or right or hold it steady then the sound changes slightly, but always in a predictable pattern, meaning left always produces the same changes in the sound, as does right, or straight. I am assuming it cannot be the throw out bearing or the input shaft bearing, based on a post Ryland offered on another thread.

Thoughts?

I am going to replace the transmission myself and rebuild this one, if possible using a VX final driven gear I have on hand and a bearing kit I'll buy for the experiment.

Thanks!

james
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:49 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Try getting up to 30 MPH, shut off the engine, keep the clutch depressed. AS you coast down to say 10 MPH downshift from 5th to 1st and see if it changes the pitch of the noise. Let me know what you find out. Imput shaft bearing will go frrom not too noisy to very noisy as you go from 5th down to 1st.

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Old 12-28-2012, 09:47 PM   #29 (permalink)
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The input shaft bearing is notorious for going bad. And it could be the noise you describe. I have also had wheel bearing that you could not test bad. The didn't feel gritty they felt tight they he'd no play or run out but yet under load they were bad that is the problem. You can test them under load. I tried o read all the posts but might have missed it does cornering change the noise if so probably wheel bearing. If not input shaft bearing. Here is a link
DIY: Tranny removal and Input Shaft Bearing change - D-series.org
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Old 12-29-2012, 05:43 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Mechanic View Post
Try getting up to 30 MPH, shut off the engine, keep the clutch depressed. AS you coast down to say 10 MPH downshift from 5th to 1st and see if it changes the pitch of the noise. Let me know what you find out. Imput shaft bearing will go frrom not too noisy to very noisy as you go from 5th down to 1st.

regards
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Wow. I have heard that first gear sound for a couple years. So, for testing sake, I ran the test you describe a few times and what happens is the usual bearing noise problem, which is a lower pulsing sound following the wheel rpm changes when I shift out of fifth and into first as the car gets down to around 10mph: a louder and higher pitched and more dry-sounding noise gets overlayed onto lower and quieter sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty94cx View Post
The input shaft bearing is notorious for going bad. And it could be the noise you describe. I have also had wheel bearing that you could not test bad. The didn't feel gritty they felt tight they he'd no play or run out but yet under load they were bad that is the problem. You can test them under load. I tried o read all the posts but might have missed it does cornering change the noise if so probably wheel bearing. If not input shaft bearing.
The sound does change slightly when I make slight left-right movements with the steering wheel, but it changes little after that as I go into a corner. I am told however that that change in sound could be caused by changing pressures on the transmission bearings via the drive axles.

So I have to think this is most likely a bearing problem within the transmission, right? There is a remaining slight possibility that it's a wheel bearing--or both the tranny and the wheel--but the transmission is the most likely culprit, no?

Interesting to note that the higher pitched sound in first gear I have noticed for years--long before ecomodding. I have also occasionally heard a sound a little like it during stand still idle.

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See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.



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